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OLAM_OLAM
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Obfuscate
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26-Dec-2012 10:57
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Flat. I dont invest in equities, which requires  detailed research of individual cos. I only dabble  derivatives such as  futures. If you entered into the Olam trade just recently, I gotta salute you. Everyone else who got involved in this co lost money. |
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counter
Senior |
26-Dec-2012 10:17
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Dear Obfuscate, I am impressed by your knowledge of Olam and I believe many people here do as well. However, I seriously believe that we should spare the people here this ordeal. I tried to end the discussion with you on Monday by saying that I totally agree with you that if share price was pushed below the equity rights issue it means the issue is not priced correctly, although I had a different view. It was done to appease you to end the discussion because I do not see  the importance of this topic to many of the people here. Apparently, it was without success as  you are rather insistent on continuing with this topic. However, even with greater knowledge of Olam, you will not make a profit without taking a position. I have a long position of 600 lots at an average cost of about 1.45 (including commission). What is your position?
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Obfuscate
Senior |
26-Dec-2012 09:52
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Are you aware that from  early Oct  2008 to 21 Dec 2012, Olam returned 7%, all of it from dividend payment? For comparison STI returned 59% and Noble Group  returned 67%. (All three of these hit a bottom in  mid Oct 08.) Olam's underperformance is  primarily due to its debt financing IMHO. In Jun 09 (financial year end) Olam had total debt of $3.2b and market cap was $4.2b. Fast forward to Jun 12, total debt  had grown 2.3x since 08 to  $7.5b and market cap was almost unchanged at $4.3b. As of Sep 2012, total debt was $8.4b and market cap today is $3.7b.
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derekchong
Veteran |
25-Dec-2012 20:41
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two more days to chiong on high volumn and hope Temasek up the stake to 20 %. |
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pasttime
Member |
25-Dec-2012 16:44
Yells: "." |
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chicken going to die already giving a last few kick. a cyclical company most important is must have mula to go thru low period and keep the business going. once up cycle come, the profit margin will improves and all will sing a good song.   |
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teeth53
Supreme |
25-Dec-2012 16:34
Yells: "don't learn through life, learn to grow with life " |
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Isit he, the Prof  donno how to make money from the following or the Prof loss too much money liao from this?. SiBo..?. " Then d ?? becomes, how do Temasek, GIC, and the govt itself work with this seemingly odd cash flow? How huhh...Can ask the prof, pay him to write a good report lohh.. |
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teeth53
Supreme |
25-Dec-2012 16:25
Yells: "don't learn through life, learn to grow with life " |
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" One of the things about Singapore is that it's really like putting together a jigsaw puzzle," Then U.S. Bo jigsaw puzzle meh..?. same same what....I m oso very confused lehh... |
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teeth53
Supreme |
25-Dec-2012 16:20
Yells: "don't learn through life, learn to grow with life " |
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  U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK The Outstanding Public Debt as of 25 Dec 2012 at 08:18:44 AM GMT is: The estimated population of the United States is 314,114,352 so each citizen's share of this debt is $52,049.10. The National Debt has continued to increase an average of $3.83 billion per day since September 28, 2007! Concerned? Then tell Congress and the White House! |
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teeth53
Supreme |
25-Dec-2012 16:16
Yells: "don't learn through life, learn to grow with life " |
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How come U.S. got no debt meh...?. | ||||
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teeth53
Supreme |
25-Dec-2012 16:13
Yells: "don't learn through life, learn to grow with life " |
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That sounds great, but Singapore is still one of the most heavily indebted countries in the world. To understand why, Professor Christopher Balding at Peking University, writer of Sovereign Wealth Funds: How about U.S., Euro debt.?.  They got debt mah?. Can ask Amgmo Prof to elaborate further.?. |
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teeth53
Supreme |
25-Dec-2012 16:06
Yells: "don't learn through life, learn to grow with life " |
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MW said, it will take billion to bailout Olam..?. it oso mentioned, suggesting other Temasek companies finance hav problem..? and oso on Sing dollars....Si mi tai chi huhh..?. U lov all about players like Block to shot at Olam...?. Maybe can further elaborate? Must thk MW. Mr bolck for highlighting Olam weakness sooner then later, so can take early correction to prevent further attack. |
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akchua
Senior |
25-Dec-2012 15:49
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Carson Block's newest short, Singapore-based commodity firm Olam, is near and dear to the Singaporean government's heart.
Temasek, Singapore's sovereign wealth fund, just upped its stake in the company to 18% this week. It's an indication of what the government, controlled by the unyielding Lee family, is willing to do to ensure that Block's call does not sink the company. Since Block's report, Olam announced it would offer $750 million in bonds and $500 million in warrants. Temasek could end up owning as much as 29% of the company, Bloomberg reports, if it exercises all the warrants in 2016. So clearly, Temasek is not backing down. And in Singapore that means the Lees are not backing down, especially since Ho Ching, the head of the fund, is Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong's wife. Lee Hsien Loong's father, Lee Kuan Yew is considered the founder of modern Singapore and became the country's first Prime Minister in 1965. In 2008, The Wall Street Journal was fined and kicked out of the country for publishing letters to the editor that suggested there may be Lee family nepotism in the Singaporean government. Suffice it to say, the Lees don't play. That said, to understand what Block has got himself into, you have to understand how Singapore and Temasek work in that environment. As of March 2012, Temasek disclosed that it manages about $161 billion worth of assets — some of their biggest investments being Olam and Singapore Airlines. The fund claims an average annual return of 17% since 1974 when it was created using $289.6 million in government surplus funds. That sounds great, but Singapore is still one of the most heavily indebted countries in the world. To understand why, Professor Christopher Balding at Peking University, writer of Sovereign Wealth Funds: The New Intersection of Money and Politics, took a deep dive into Temasek and The Government of Singapore Investment Corporation, it's other investment vehicle. According to his findings, all is not as it seems in the Singaporean investment universe. The individual companies that make up Temasek, for one, simply have never returned enough individually to make up the 17% collective return. " Just about everyone I know in the finance industry down here... knows things just aren't right with Singaporean finances," Balding told Business Insider, " but no one wants to go toe to toe with the Lee's by themselves." In a report entitled A Brief Research Note on The Government Investment Corporation of Singapore, Temasek Holdings, And Singapore: Mr. Madoff Goes to Singapore, Balding first compares Temasek's performance with that of the Singaporean stock market. This makes sense, because Temasek is heavily invested in domestic companies (see the chart to your right). As you can see, Temasek is clobbering Singaporean companies. Another strange thing that Balding noticed, is that Temasek's companies have basically no debt, while the the country is up to its ears in it. At the same time, the country says it's running a surplus. From Balding's report: ...due to the large government budget
surpluses and the increased debt, it seems highly improbable that the
current numbers published by the Singaporean government and markets can
be reconciled either to external data or to each other. If investment
returns and public finance data is accurate, there must be an enormous
pool of unreported assets controlled by the Singaporean government. If
investment returns and public finance data as currently published is
inaccurate, this represents a serious problem.
The government of Singapore is
subsidizing GIC and Temasek losses by paying their implied obligations
to the CPF even though the they have not earned a rate of return
sufficient to cover the cost of debt capital. In other words, the
government of Singapore is subsidizing GIC and Temasek losses to the
amount of the rate of return earned by GIC or Temasek minus the 4% it
pays to CPF account holders. Financial losses attributable to GIC and Temasek but covered by the government of Singapore, significantly increase the risk of CPF deposits.
But that isn't to say Singapore doesn't have the cash (or the will) to shore up their investment, even though Block estimates that it would take billions to keep Olam afloat. Business Insider asked Carson Block if Muddy Waters was worried about the government's active involvement in Temasek's holdings. " We are not concerned by the prospect of a continuing bailout of Olam," Block responded. " Such support would either add to a debt load that we believe is already fatal, or substantially dilute the shares. At the heart of Olam is a sick core business and substantial amounts of already squandered capital investment. We do not see Olam ever becoming a bailout success story." Perhaps not, but that doesn't mean that the Lees won't start a war of attrition. Balding conjectured that Block may be able to win, however, if other hedge fund managers take up the short, find other Temasek companies to short, or start attacking the Singapore dollar. " If you just look at these companies, if you look into their finances they're fine," said Balding, " but because a lot of this is on the public books it will be interesting to see if people go after the Singapore dollar... if there's a run its probably going to be on the currency." Olam's bond offering is set to take place in early January. Until then, we'll be watching the Lees, the stock, and Temasek Holdings with much anticipation. |
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counter
Senior |
24-Dec-2012 13:21
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Dear Obfuscate, Great sense of humour indeed. The fall in Olam share price  in Nov 2010 from  $3.37 was  a market-wide phenomenon  due to concern over the Sovereign Debt Crisis in Europe. Although Muddy Waters had the ability to beat down Olam share price in recent months, I never though that it had the ability to influence the whole market. I  wish you and everyone here Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. |
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Obfuscate
Senior |
24-Dec-2012 11:36
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MW story is only a few weeks/months. Olam's share price hit a high in Nov 2010 at $3.37. (It was hovering above $3 roughly between late Sep 2010 and mid Feb 2011.) From there it just yo-yo down. Please dont give MW all the credit. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year  to counter and all who are here!
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rotijai
Supreme |
24-Dec-2012 10:46
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the chip has run up from 1.37 to 1.55 and u guys are still talking about the fundamental of the company and the rights??... u guys are really funny -_- *not an advice to buy/sell **i have sold everything last week |
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counter
Senior |
24-Dec-2012 10:24
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Dear Obfuscate, I totally agree with you that if share price was pushed below the equity rights issue it means the issue is not priced correctly. Although Muddy Waters is determined to push Olam share price down after spending months and  financial resources to prepre a 133-page report on Olam and  put its reputaion  at stake, if Olam could give a 49% discount on  the equity rights issue, like what HSBC did in March 2009, it would likely be  able to get  underwriters. I thank you for taking your time to share your precious knowledge.
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Obfuscate
Senior |
24-Dec-2012 09:44
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1. If share price was pushed below the equity rights issue it means the issue is not priced correctly. A company has to pay the banks to underwrite. Banks accept an underwriting fee and are legally obligated to support the issue. Facebook is a perfect example of banks supporting the IPO price at US$38, meaning they would have to take up everything not sold, because they already charged an underwriting fee for this. Yes, they lost money in FB for supporting the price - one of them UBS lost  several hundred million USD, much more than the  underwriting fee received  -  but this is the cost of underwriting. 2. I am not aware that Temasek is unwilling to support an equity rights issue and do not recall reading this but it would help if you could post the news here for reference. Thanks in advance. Nonetheless, it is already water under the bridge and hence best left for the academics and historians.
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sun233
Member |
24-Dec-2012 02:01
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Advise from broker. Phillips Olam International (OLAM) is our selection of the day. From a technical perspective, the share price has reversed up, following a strong rebound on its 1.36 support and the upside breakout of its 20-day moving average. In addition, the RSI indicator has also bounced off its 30% support and is gaining a strong momentum. In these perspectives, as long as 1.43 holds on the downside, look for a new bounce to 1.61 and 1.70 (which corresponds to the 50% Fibonacci retracement). Congrats longs |
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skk888
Veteran |
23-Dec-2012 11:55
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Phillip CFD. --- Update 1: Olam Rights Issue Please be informed that Olam has an upcoming rights issue with ex-date on 28 Dec 2012. For short positions, kindly close your position by 27th Dec 2012, 3pm and closing commission will be waived.  We will be catering for the rights only for LONG positions. For LONG clients who are intending to hold their positions past the ex-date and be entitled to the rights, we would like to highlight the increased risk of a margin call between the ex-date and the rights trading date. Clients will still be subjected to standard margin call procedures.  The dates of rights crediting is to be determined and once credited to CFD will be at a margin requirement of 20%. There will not be any conversion of the rights to bonds and warrants and as such all clients MUST sell their rights before the last trading day. Otherwise, the rights will lapse and be closed off at a traded price of zero.  Liquidation of your rights will be done on a phone-only market order basis. Commission is chargeable for the liquidation of the rights at the commission rates similar to Olam under CFD and DMA CFD. Finance charge for the rights will not be chargeable.  We will post further updates if there is any changes on the rights issue above.  |
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counter
Senior |
22-Dec-2012 07:03
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Dear Obfuscate, A rights issue of equity under the current circumstances is not about short term pain or long term gain. It is about whether Olam will raise any equity at all. Let me ask you a simple question. If the share price is pushed below the rights issue price which is likely due to the strong momentum of short-selling at the time, assuming that you are a shareholder, would you take up your rights? Suppose the answer is a no. How is Olam going to raise more equity? Besides, are you aware that Temasek indicated that it was not willing to support a right issue of equity?
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