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Latest Forum Topics / HanKore Env  Post Reply
Hankore onward march to 8-10cts.
Lucky03
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16-Nov-2013 15:18     
 
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 Alert Admin 		Issuing more shares through option will indeed have dilution effect on dividend payout, NTA plus EPS. However, given that Hankore will unlikely announce any dividend in short term, capital gain is the motivation for most and it is only logical that any exercising of any option can only mean the share price has appreciated significantly above $0.064. Everybody should still be happy, right ? So, option will motivate the holders to work towards delivering growth to drive the price higher. Only concern if they got their priority wrong and strategies are increasingly short term focus and do more harm than good in the long run. Options are increasing unpopular for Spore companies where most shares do not have the potential to see price appreciation as the economy is more matured and hence most switch to issuing shares instead. This will need the companies to buy back shares from the market or issues more. To exercise option, the option holders will need to pay up the price of the option so in this case, the executive and directors of Hankore will have to cough out $0.064 per share to exercise option. Hankore will experience some increase in capital too.

new6ie      ( Date: 16-Nov-2013 15:00) Posted:

In Singapore context, when options given to staffs are exercised, new shares are issued. In some cases, a small consideration is paid,  since these options could be an incentive for " good work" . In other cases the money is the strike price that was fixed at the time of giving out the options.   Shareholders normally get diluted with such new shares being issued.   That is why, at AGM or SGM when they ask for a mandate to issue shares (directors will claim that SGX said to get this mandate ready every year) don't approve the mandate.   Pay higher salaries, why pay in shares for good work?

lictenau      ( Date: 16-Nov-2013 14:17) Posted:



just curious, when options are exercised, where do the shares come from?

Is this an exercise to reward those receiving the options but financed by the market instead of their own coffers?
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new6ie
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16-Nov-2013 15:00     
 
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 Alert Admin 		In Singapore context, when options given to staffs are exercised, new shares are issued. In some cases, a small consideration is paid,  since these options could be an incentive for " good work" . In other cases the money is the strike price that was fixed at the time of giving out the options.   Shareholders normally get diluted with such new shares being issued.   That is why, at AGM or SGM when they ask for a mandate to issue shares (directors will claim that SGX said to get this mandate ready every year) don't approve the mandate.   Pay higher salaries, why pay in shares for good work?

lictenau      ( Date: 16-Nov-2013 14:17) Posted:



just curious, when options are exercised, where do the shares come from?

Is this an exercise to reward those receiving the options but financed by the market instead of their own coffers?
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Lucky03
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16-Nov-2013 14:56     
 
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 Alert Admin 		Don't forget that with opportunities also comes competition. Hankore needs to be seen to be able to win more contracts or expand its current portfolio through acquisition. No sure win just because of having the right strategy and having the right growth story.

n3wbie      ( Date: 16-Nov-2013 14:37) Posted:



Personally, I find that the water waste treatment industry in China has a positive prospect going forward especially with the Chinese government's stance on addressing environmental issues.

That being said, while we expect HanKore to trade at an improved premium from its current valuation of about 14+/-x P/E, I believe that it will still be traded at a discount from its peers listed on the HKEX such as 371.HK or even the newly listed IPO, 1363.HK for the simple fact that SGX listed companies generally fetch a poorer valuation (at least in my humble opinion).   Comparatively, if we look at SIIC Environment (SGX: 5GB) which is currently trading at about 21x P/E, we can perhaps take the ballpark figure of about 17-18x P/E as a good gauge of where it should be, eventually. 

Going through the comments made about HanKore, I think that the current share price is also a result of the market noise, which is common in the wake of a potential consolidation exercise. While I noticed that the main bulk of volume traded of HanKore seems to be above yesterday's closing price of S$0.065 and many are probably suffering paper loss, it boils down to asking yourself the underlying question of " Why did you put your money in this counter in the first place?" - a short term momentum play or are looking at a 3-5 year horizon for your investment returns? if it is the former, then it does not make sense to take a position when the counter had already ran up 20-30% and you failed to be disciplined enough to cut-loss when share price retreated due to others taking profit or simply a case of share price consolidation.

I believe this is a counter whereby the fundamentals are sound and the management is taking baby steps to structure the Group for a stronger positioning in the long haul. With prolific investor(s) being the substantial shareholder, should it not be a pledge of confidence in itself already?

Overall, I am " long" on this counter but waiting for the best entry price no position at this point in time.  

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lictenau
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16-Nov-2013 14:56     
 
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Thank You Lucky for the explanation,

I'm more certain now that this counter wil rise.

Lucky03      ( Date: 16-Nov-2013 14:40) Posted:

Remember the shareholders approved the issuance of more shares ? That's where the shares will come from of the options are exercised. So, besides possibly issues more shares to raise capital, they also sought the approval for the purpose of issuing options to executives and directors. Well, they can't just reward shareholders without also having some way to reward executives and directors who have helped to steer Hankore out of the mess and of course David himself. It is the chance for them to make a pile now ! Indeed very well orchestrated and not harming anyone in the the way as rewards will be generated from the market and not paid from the company and deplete its coffer. Not too far from turning around soon as it approaches the 100D MA. The signal will be the moment it breaks above its 20D MA which has now in turn places some downward pressure.

lictenau      ( Date: 16-Nov-2013 14:17) Posted:



just curious, when options are exercised, where do the shares come from?

Is this an exercise to reward those receiving the options but financed by the market instead of their own coffers?
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Lucky03
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16-Nov-2013 14:40     
 
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 Alert Admin 		Remember the shareholders approved the issuance of more shares ? That's where the shares will come from of the options are exercised. So, besides possibly issues more shares to raise capital, they also sought the approval for the purpose of issuing options to executives and directors. Well, they can't just reward shareholders without also having some way to reward executives and directors who have helped to steer Hankore out of the mess and of course David himself. It is the chance for them to make a pile now ! Indeed very well orchestrated and not harming anyone in the the way as rewards will be generated from the market and not paid from the company and deplete its coffer. Not too far from turning around soon as it approaches the 100D MA. The signal will be the moment it breaks above its 20D MA which has now in turn places some downward pressure.

lictenau      ( Date: 16-Nov-2013 14:17) Posted:



just curious, when options are exercised, where do the shares come from?

Is this an exercise to reward those receiving the options but financed by the market instead of their own coffers?
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n3wbie
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16-Nov-2013 14:37     
 
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 Alert Admin

Personally, I find that the water waste treatment industry in China has a positive prospect going forward especially with the Chinese government's stance on addressing environmental issues.

That being said, while we expect HanKore to trade at an improved premium from its current valuation of about 14+/-x P/E, I believe that it will still be traded at a discount from its peers listed on the HKEX such as 371.HK or even the newly listed IPO, 1363.HK for the simple fact that SGX listed companies generally fetch a poorer valuation (at least in my humble opinion).   Comparatively, if we look at SIIC Environment (SGX: 5GB) which is currently trading at about 21x P/E, we can perhaps take the ballpark figure of about 17-18x P/E as a good gauge of where it should be, eventually. 

Going through the comments made about HanKore, I think that the current share price is also a result of the market noise, which is common in the wake of a potential consolidation exercise. While I noticed that the main bulk of volume traded of HanKore seems to be above yesterday's closing price of S$0.065 and many are probably suffering paper loss, it boils down to asking yourself the underlying question of " Why did you put your money in this counter in the first place?" - a short term momentum play or are looking at a 3-5 year horizon for your investment returns? if it is the former, then it does not make sense to take a position when the counter had already ran up 20-30% and you failed to be disciplined enough to cut-loss when share price retreated due to others taking profit or simply a case of share price consolidation.

I believe this is a counter whereby the fundamentals are sound and the management is taking baby steps to structure the Group for a stronger positioning in the long haul. With prolific investor(s) being the substantial shareholder, should it not be a pledge of confidence in itself already?

Overall, I am " long" on this counter but waiting for the best entry price no position at this point in time.  
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lictenau
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16-Nov-2013 14:17     
 
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just curious, when options are exercised, where do the shares come from?

Is this an exercise to reward those receiving the options but financed by the market instead of their own coffers?
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leeeta
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16-Nov-2013 14:12     
 
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 Alert Admin 		Now that David has achieved his objectives with the employee share options ( i did not see much or   CK or BB participating last week), price may just bump up next week. We may see 7 and above soon ... we will see what happens next with this consolidation topic.


Share7      ( Date: 16-Nov-2013 14:03) Posted:

IF not for the consolidation, HK should still stay above 7c and moving towards 2d. Now it may just limbo rock and wait and see till 2Q in Feb. 

leeeta      ( Date: 16-Nov-2013 13:42) Posted:

http://www.ibtimes.com/six-dramatic-reforms-chinas-third-plenum-1472754

The prices of water, oil, natural gas, electricity, transport and telecommunications will become more market-determined, which should open up sectors previously dominated by state-owned enterprises to private and foreign firms. Policymakers will also retreat from micro-level intervention, allowing for freer markets.
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Share7
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16-Nov-2013 14:09     
 
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 Alert Admin 		Consolation is HK's FA is getting stronger with high growth and favorable China policy, stronger financial backing. Eventually the share price should reflect its potential.
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leeeta
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16-Nov-2013 14:07     
 
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 Alert Admin 		China water tariff rates considered to the one of the lowest in the world. The only way from here is up as policymakers allows for freer markets. This bodes well for HK and in the last post from h2o, they are gonna start off with Beijing followed then by other cities and provinces.
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Share7
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16-Nov-2013 14:03     
 
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 Alert Admin 		IF not for the consolidation, HK should still stay above 7c and moving towards 2d. Now it may just limbo rock and wait and see till 2Q in Feb. 

leeeta      ( Date: 16-Nov-2013 13:42) Posted:

http://www.ibtimes.com/six-dramatic-reforms-chinas-third-plenum-1472754

The prices of water, oil, natural gas, electricity, transport and telecommunications will become more market-determined, which should open up sectors previously dominated by state-owned enterprises to private and foreign firms. Policymakers will also retreat from micro-level intervention, allowing for freer markets.
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leeeta
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16-Nov-2013 13:42     
 
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 Alert Admin 		http://www.ibtimes.com/six-dramatic-reforms-chinas-third-plenum-1472754

The prices of water, oil, natural gas, electricity, transport and telecommunications will become more market-determined, which should open up sectors previously dominated by state-owned enterprises to private and foreign firms. Policymakers will also retreat from micro-level intervention, allowing for freer markets.
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Share7
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16-Nov-2013 13:32     
 
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HONG KONG, Nov 15 (Reuters) - Chinese shares listed in Hong Kong posted their biggest daily gain in three months on Friday, on China reform hopes and after comments from the U.S. Federal Reserve presumptive chair raised hopes of an extension in easy U.S. monetary policy.

China's reform plan approved by the party plenum was " unprecedented" and fundamental changes are expected after upgrading the market's role in the economy, a senior party official said in comments published on Friday.

Market players also cited a circulating draft of what they say could be the " final decision" containing reform details from the Communist Party plenum meeting that had ended on Tuesday. The initial communique was seen vague and spawned doubts about the government's commitment to reform. The final document is due for release next week.

The Hang Seng Index ended up 1.7 percent at 23,032.2 points, while the China Enterprises Index of the top Chinese listings in Hong Kong spiked 3 percent in its biggest single-day gain since Aug. 12.

Rises helped both indexes swing into gains on the week. They rose 1.3 and 3 percent, respectively. Although bourse turnover slowed in the afternoon, the full-day total on Friday was still the heaviest since Oct. 23.

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Share7
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16-Nov-2013 13:28     
 
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 Alert Admin 		The `leaked' document caused Shanghai and Shenzhen bourse to cheong on Friday. Read CNBC. The article said details will be released next week.  

reknab      ( Date: 16-Nov-2013 13:13) Posted:

Interesting. Bro do you have a source here? Or just based on some market chatter

Share7      ( Date: 16-Nov-2013 12:53) Posted:

The detailed communique may indicate a tariff pricing model for waste water treatment. This will be a fantastic catalyst for companies in municipal waste water business. This will potentially unleash the high growth promises of HK further. 


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reknab
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16-Nov-2013 13:13     
 
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 Alert Admin 		Interesting. Bro do you have a source here? Or just based on some market chatter

Share7      ( Date: 16-Nov-2013 12:53) Posted:

The detailed communique may indicate a tariff pricing model for waste water treatment. This will be a fantastic catalyst for companies in municipal waste water business. This will potentially unleash the high growth promises of HK further. 

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Share7
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16-Nov-2013 12:53     
 
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 Alert Admin 		The detailed communique may indicate a tariff pricing model for waste water treatment. This will be a fantastic catalyst for companies in municipal waste water business. This will potentially unleash the high growth promises of HK further. 
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Share7
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16-Nov-2013 12:45     
 
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 Alert Admin 		Possible theory. I thought share option is to tie up staff loyalty to the company. Now the staff will have to perform as their options are tied to share price performance so that they can make a profitable trade. China just released (leaked) some reform details and next weeks the details will be out. It will benefit water waste companies, especially those in municipal waste water business with urbanisation and environmental push.

leeeta      ( Date: 16-Nov-2013 09:43) Posted:

Good morning all and thanks for the well wishes.

I smell a rat. It could be that the recent downturn of px was engineered so that the options price can be pegged lower for the directors. During the BAL saga and the penny thrashing hK was about 7 to 7.2 with lowest at 6.8 for a day or two. The RSS proposal was a great help to bring the px lower. So don't be surprised if the rss proposal is scrapped in a week or two and Hk cheonging past 10cts by Christmas...but then this is just another theory. ..and if there is no cancellation I don't think they care if the proposal is shot down in the SGM. No wonder they give sh1ty reason for the Rss proposal.

Lucky03      ( Date: 15-Nov-2013 22:50) Posted:

Not much logic. Simple that if consolidation scares retail investors, killing it will do the opposite and if indeed it springs back, who really care as investing community just like to buy 'cheap'. it may then propel it above the 10c mark and funds manager may start to take notice. However, I would have liked to see its NTA and eps goes higher and hence P/B and PE turn more attractive for a more sustainable rally
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leeeta
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16-Nov-2013 09:43     
 
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 Alert Admin 		Good morning all and thanks for the well wishes.

I smell a rat. It could be that the recent downturn of px was engineered so that the options price can be pegged lower for the directors. During the BAL saga and the penny thrashing hK was about 7 to 7.2 with lowest at 6.8 for a day or two. The RSS proposal was a great help to bring the px lower. So don't be surprised if the rss proposal is scrapped in a week or two and Hk cheonging past 10cts by Christmas...but then this is just another theory. ..and if there is no cancellation I don't think they care if the proposal is shot down in the SGM. No wonder they give sh1ty reason for the Rss proposal.

Lucky03      ( Date: 15-Nov-2013 22:50) Posted:

Not much logic. Simple that if consolidation scares retail investors, killing it will do the opposite and if indeed it springs back, who really care as investing community just like to buy 'cheap'. it may then propel it above the 10c mark and funds manager may start to take notice. However, I would have liked to see its NTA and eps goes higher and hence P/B and PE turn more attractive for a more sustainable rally.

cccx123      ( Date: 15-Nov-2013 22:42) Posted:

Why do I sense a plot to push through the consolidation exercise during the second round of voting by said share holdings instead of show of hands. We will see in the coming days if 6.4cts is the newly established "floor" or not. But seeing how those options expire in ten years, it doesn't really seem to matter in the short term unless they are subscribed to with immediate effect. Difficult to see how the consolidation will fail when David himself owns almost 20%. If the other SSH throw their support behind his proposal, which is very likely..how can it fail. And if the SSHs refuses to support the exercise, how will the investing community view such rejections? Either way we lose out. Is there a third scenario?
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Lucky03
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16-Nov-2013 00:02     
 
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 Alert Admin 		Collected some at 6.3 and then it rebounded so sold off for ST instead. No hurry till the SGM is called.

cccx123      ( Date: 15-Nov-2013 23:02) Posted:

I don't know about that..killing it might mean disharmony amongst SSHs and management. Really doubt retail investors have substantial share holdings to kill the proposal. But no point reading too much into this. Will just have to put David and team through the meat grinder during the SGM which they are taking their own sweet time to call. I thought you started to collect again two weeks ago lol..

Lucky03      ( Date: 15-Nov-2013 22:50) Posted:

Not much logic. Simple that if consolidation scares retail investors, killing it will do the opposite and if indeed it springs back, who really care as investing community just like to buy 'cheap'. it may then propel it above the 10c mark and funds manager may start to take notice. However, I would have liked to see its NTA and eps goes higher and hence P/B and PE turn more attractive for a more sustainable rally
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cccx123
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15-Nov-2013 23:02     
 
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 Alert Admin 		I don't know about that..killing it might mean disharmony amongst SSHs and management. Really doubt retail investors have substantial share holdings to kill the proposal. But no point reading too much into this. Will just have to put David and team through the meat grinder during the SGM which they are taking their own sweet time to call. I thought you started to collect again two weeks ago lol..

Lucky03      ( Date: 15-Nov-2013 22:50) Posted:

Not much logic. Simple that if consolidation scares retail investors, killing it will do the opposite and if indeed it springs back, who really care as investing community just like to buy 'cheap'. it may then propel it above the 10c mark and funds manager may start to take notice. However, I would have liked to see its NTA and eps goes higher and hence P/B and PE turn more attractive for a more sustainable rally.

cccx123      ( Date: 15-Nov-2013 22:42) Posted:

Why do I sense a plot to push through the consolidation exercise during the second round of voting by said share holdings instead of show of hands. We will see in the coming days if 6.4cts is the newly established "floor" or not. But seeing how those options expire in ten years, it doesn't really seem to matter in the short term unless they are subscribed to with immediate effect. Difficult to see how the consolidation will fail when David himself owns almost 20%. If the other SSH throw their support behind his proposal, which is very likely..how can it fail. And if the SSHs refuses to support the exercise, how will the investing community view such rejections? Either way we lose out. Is there a third scenario?
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