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jackjames Elite	23-Nov-2007 23:46        jackjames About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Imagine if you really go big with 100K warrant, costing you 3000SGD, if your application is successful, you get 100,000 warrant 2012. That is a bigger number. I think the advantage on this Warrant2012 is you are  HOLDING then with small amount of money  to HOPE for the big change in mother share price within 5 years. But when it expire its drops to zero value so cannot plan for long term. Hi Tiandi, using back your same example, say I go big with 100K warrant, cost me SGD 3,000, and if succeeful, i gt 100,000 warrant 2012. Now, let us assume, at the fourth year 2011 , yongnam price is 0.70 , i want to convert to mother shares, I need to pay 100,000 x 0.25 = SGD 25,000 to convert to mother shares, right? by then, how long is the transition from warrant to mothershare? it takes weeks ? days? or I can sell the mother shares the next day? if so, say I sold at 0.70 , i get back 100,000 x 0.70 = SGD 70,000 , nett gain can be SGD 70,000 - SGD 25,000 - SGD 3,000 = SGD 42,000 , right? wow, that's not too bad ! no wonder, sometimes, we can see the director is exercising their warrant convert to mother shares, and you can see their price is so low compared to the market value, it is exactly the same scenario happend for  yongnam in the next few years.... UNLESS in the next five years, Yongnam is trading below 0.30 cents, then i will say, that is pathetic.... so, tiandi, the chances to earn big is pretty high, isn't it?
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tiandi Senior	23-Nov-2007 21:43        tiandi About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Geneva,  1) Shareholders  (should be entitled shareholders, since shareholders bought on or after ex-Rights are not entitled) who wants more warrants can try their luck by applying for the excess @0.03   (YES) rather than buying from open market (Yongnam R and Yongnam R300) as it is likely to cost more eg  (market rate  $0.04 + issue price $0.03)? (correct) Since you already got the form you should have the document, you can read and find this information on EXCESS Rights application.
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Geneva88 Member	23-Nov-2007 21:16        Geneva88 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Cheers Tiandi you are very knowledgeable about rights issues  Some doubts: 1) Shareholders who wants more warrants can try their luck by applying for the excess @0.03 rather than buying from open market (Yongnam R and Yongnam R300) as it is likely to cost more eg  (market rate  $0.04 + issue price $0.03)?
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Geneva88 Member	23-Nov-2007 19:45        Geneva88 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	The warrants application forms has been received
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tiandi Senior	23-Nov-2007 19:37        tiandi About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 1   x 0  Alert Admin	jackjames,  your statement is very true, people who do not understand may just skip and throw their RIGHTS away because they don't know what to do with it. Especially in Singapore where there is such thing called ODD LOT and many people just do not like odd lots so they throw them away. They do not know they can sell nil-paid Rights  in market and cash out. In USA you can buy and sell ANY number of shares. I read the Rights documents, full of hard to read, legal, financial terms and I got very confused too. Until recently when I am FREE and take long time to study step by step, read many times, call CDP hotline, check and then I find it not too bad.. haha, like the meaning of nil-paid Rights. For this Yongnam Rights, you should already know they are raising capital of about 10.9 million by issuing this Rights . Since this is 3 for 10 the total new number shares would increased by 30% if ALL RIGHTS are subscribed and all warrant are converted to mother shares, that means Mother share price should be diluted by simular amount of 30% hence you see the price adjustment by Mr Market when the mother share is trading ex-right. For now, as an entitled shareholder, you have ONE advantage more than just the proportion of 7500 Rights, (if you want to exercise your Rights), that advantage is : you are can apply EXCESS RIGHTS at UNLIMITED quantity and at EXACTLY the same Rights Issue Price of  0.03.  Like IPO,  you can apply, pay first, but depends on how many people applied. If total application is less than the Max number of RIGHTS issue, they will allocate to people who applied for excess rights, so you stand a chance to be allocated and get your extra at the same price.. Imagine if you really go big with 100K warrant, costing you 3000SGD, if your application is successful, you get 100,000 warrant 2012. That is a bigger number. I think the advantage on this Warrant2012 is you are  HOLDING then with small amount of money  to HOPE for the big change in mother share price within 5 years. But when it expire its drops to zero value so cannot plan for long term.
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jackjames Elite	23-Nov-2007 18:40        jackjames About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	to be honest, rights is confusing thousands of people, how can they expect those ah pek ah ma understand the rights... when the issue rights, those people who doesn't understand the details, they might just didn't get the "free" money.. tiandi, as you are familiar with rights, you should know what is the advantages of rights.. what do u think of the warrant offer price of 0.03, will it give advantage in the long term? and why? just purely your opinions on this... i think math genius surely will use rights to play, and earn some easy money..
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tiandi Senior	23-Nov-2007 18:24        tiandi About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	jackjames, haha, you figure out already.almost. just one more step...keep cool, only need to figure out once, then next time should be straight forward. Yes, you got free Rights total 7500. But I suggest you logon to your CDP account to see this 7500 in your account. I hope you have CDP free-internet access. It is really convenience to check status. You can sell for about 225 dollar less trading fee ( once sold, you lost your Rights to exercise for 7500 Warrant). using your on-line system , you should key in quantity 7500 , select Yongnam R300. symbol is D4PR, and your offer price. I went into DBSV online and do a simulation for you to refer by keying sell order with 0.03. You can do so on your own on-line system to verify too. See below. Stock Name Symbol Last Done Change Bid Vol Bid Ask Ask Vol Volume YONGNAM R300 D4PR 0.035 0.000 900 0.035 0.040 71,100 148,800 Order To: Sell Contra (Cash) Quantity: 7500 Symbol: D4PR Market: SGX Costs: Total Contract Value: SGD 225.00 Commission: SGD 25.00 Clearing fee: SGD 0.09 SGX Trading Fee: SGD 0.02 GST: SGD 1.76 Total Commission and Fees: SGD 26.87 Indicative Total Proceed: SGD 198.13
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jackjames Elite	23-Nov-2007 17:30        jackjames About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I called broker again, now she explained again, R300 is for multiple of 300, as my 7500 shares is not multiple of 1000, so, i have to sell at R300, so, i cannot go and calculate 7500 x 300 to confuse myself, arrrggggggggggggghhh.. i hate rights.
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jackjames Elite	23-Nov-2007 17:27        jackjames About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	tiandi, final clarification, i have 25 lots yongnam on hands, meaning, 25/10x 3 = entitled to 7500 of yongnam right shares issue. That is free rights for me, right? If I do not want to keep it anymore, I just sell to the market, and get the money, right? If so, how should I sell, 7500 shares, I should use Yongnam R300, right? my broker just said type 7500 at Yongnam R300, but is this correct? I thought it should be 7500 share at Yongnam R , sounds more correct.
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tiandi Senior	23-Nov-2007 11:39        tiandi About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	GerGer, question. if i m holding 10 lots of mother shares, i am entitle to 3 rights. if i want to exercise the rights to get the warrant, i need to pay only 3 cnts or 6 cnts + admin charges? ( since you are entitled the 3 lots of Rights, you can choose to Exercise your 3 lots Rights , you pay 3 cents Rights Issue Price per share total plus ATM admin charge of $2, if you use ATM) is tis the difference between "current shareholder" and non shareholder? (Yes , they got the Rights nil-paid, but the term "current shareholder" must be changed to entitled shareholder, because some current shareholders bought share on or after Ex-Right date , they do not get the entitlement) one pay 3 cnts the other pay 6 cnts? (Yes, he choose to BUY the nil-paid Rights from the market )
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GerGer Member	23-Nov-2007 11:21        GerGer About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	hi tiandi, one last question. if i m holding 10 lots of mother shares, i am entitle to 3 rights. if i want to exercise the rights to get the warrant, i need to pay only 3 cnts or 6 cnts + admin charges? is tis the difference between current shareholder and non shareholder? one pay 3 cnts the other pay 6 cnts? thks very much.
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WinWah Member	23-Nov-2007 11:09        WinWah About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Hi folks, Have anyone receive the rights documents yet?
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GerGer Member	23-Nov-2007 10:55        GerGer About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	hi tiandi, tat means i am actually paying 3+3+25 = 31 cnts + admin charges for every lot if i convert the warrant to mother share within 5 yrs? looking at the price of the mother share now @ 0.275, it is actually more worth to buy the mother share than to subscribe to the rights? the reason to subscribe to the rights is i am risking only risking 6 cnts as compare to 27.5 cnts for the mother share?
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tiandi Senior	23-Nov-2007 10:47        tiandi About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	GerGer, quite correct but you need to pay also other costs. I think it is good to understand in two steps since cost is involved. Your total costs  is the sum of the two below. 1. You buy from market, you pay market price plus trade commision subject to minimum plus CDP clearance fee and tax. If you buy very big number the market price per share rules. But if you buy small quantity you must pay a high commission because it is subjected to minimum cost.  2. You can exercise your Rights of 3 cents to convert to Warrant by using ATM, you pay $2 admin fee plus the 3cents*number of shares.
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GerGer Member	23-Nov-2007 10:27        GerGer About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	hi tiandi, does tat mean if i am not holding any mother share and i want to buy the rights with the intention of getting the warrant, for every rights if i buy for 3 cents,  i must pay 6 cents to exercise the rights to get the warrant? thks.
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tiandi Senior	23-Nov-2007 10:16        tiandi About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 1   x 0  Alert Admin	jackjames, Geneva, One important thing you can help understanding Rights is :the trading of the Rights you saw listed in SGX for this 7 day trading period is nil-paid Rights. The entitled shareholder did not paid yet.  jackjames Q:can you explain why they list the yongnam R between nov 22 to nov 30? (This is CDP/SGX standard procedure of allowing 7 trading days because Rights is transferable thus  7 trading days is provided for trading in the market for buyers and sellers. )does it mean, only the person who holds the mothershare yongnam is eligible to buy? No, anybody can buy and sell in the market during this period,  i thought only you hold 10 lots yongnam you are eligible for 3 yongnam R ? ( Yes, when you are acting as a entitled shareholders, your entitlement of nil-paid Rights is according the the proportion of 3 for 10. if you are an entitled shareholder holding 10 mother shares, your CDP account must already have 300 nil-paid Rights. That is your 'rights'. However if you want to buy more from market, you do not enjoy this 'rights'. You not longer is entitled shareholder. does it mean, if you have 20 lots, you only can buy 6 lots of yongnam R today? No , you can buy as many as the seller is willing to sell as your bid price in the market. but remember this , when you  are buying the nil-paid Rights during this period, you act as anybody and not as the entitled shareholder ( I hope this is understandable). or all the people can buy  (YES) anytime ( not anytime, only limited to trading period 22 -30Nov), but must sell on or before nov 30 if they do not have yongnam mother shares.( if you buy and want to cash out you must sell before 30 Nov 5pm, but if you buy this nil-paid Rights from the market with the intention of  getting the warrant, you then must exercise by paying the Rights issue price of 3 cents before the Rights Closing Date) Geneva88 Q: Then why do ppl sell rights for <$0.03 when they have to pay 3cents for it? During this trading period these Rights are nil-paid. Not yet paid. they sell for all kind of reasons, one of them is they don't want to hold odd lot. another one is they don't like to pay 3 cents and hold warrant ( some people NEVER like warrant). one reason I know also is they don't understand the meaning and act , in other words, many kinds of reasons.
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josephinelim Member	23-Nov-2007 09:13        josephinelim About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	why subcribe right at 3 cents & later still need to convert to mothershare @ 25 cents..... might as well buy the mothershare straight away......... Is there any benefit to subscribe the right?
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Geneva88 Member	23-Nov-2007 07:41        Geneva88 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Then why do ppl sell rights for <$0.03 when they have to pay 3cents for it?
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jackjames Elite	22-Nov-2007 22:25        jackjames About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	tiandi, can you explain why they list the yongnam R between nov 22 to nov 30? does it mean, only the person who holds the mothershare yongnam is eligible to buy? i thought only you hold 10 lots yongnam you are eligible for 3 yongnam R ? does it mean, if you have 20 lots, you only can buy 6 lots of yongnam R today? or all the people can buy anytime, but must sell on or before nov 30 if they do not have yongnam mother shares. please correct me
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tiandi Senior	22-Nov-2007 21:06        tiandi About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Geneva88, Rights are transferable and thus there is a periods of 7 trading days for people to buy and sell in the market. From sgx announcement below this periods starts from 22 Nov and end on 30 Nov.   No , these Rights has not been subscribed.  Rights Closing date is 6 Dec, people who want to subscribe will do so before 6 Dec. Rights Closing Date : 6 Dec 2007 Rights Trading Period : From 22 Nov 2007 To 30 Nov 2007
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