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A World Without Buffett
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ten4one
Master |
23-Jun-2008 09:18
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Mr George Soros didn't even need to buy a Company.....................he used other people's money and almost broke The Bank Of England. He is the modern Robin Hood - rob the Bank and give to the Poor! Cheers! |
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zhuge_liang
Supreme |
22-Jun-2008 00:31
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Warren Buffett bought a small textile company in 1965 and turned it into one of the largest investment holding companies in the world. In 1965, Berkshire Hathaway was trading around US$12 a share. Today, it trades around US$126,500 a share. That’s a 1,054,067% total return! Peter Lynch of Fidelity Magellan Fund fame. You may remember Peter's stellar performance through the 1980's at the helm of the Magellan Fund. If you had invested US$10,000 when Lynch took the helm in 1977, you would have seen that small stake skyrocket to US$280,000 when Lynch 'retired' in 1990! Other investing gurus include the great contrarian David Dreman . . . Benjamin Graham, called the "father of value investing" . . . the outrageous, but extremely successful investing brothers, Tom and David Gardener of Motley Fool fame . . . just to name a few. |
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ten4one
Master |
04-Feb-2008 10:50
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Haha...There're a lot of things in this world shouldn't have happened; but, they happened.............me know that too,.........NOW ....! If he (WB) knew that for sure, then why didn't he took positions and profit from the situations then!!!!!!! Cheers! HINDSIGHT ALWAYS CRYSTAL CLEAR.....hahaha...! |
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ltvalue
Senior |
03-Feb-2008 23:06
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Buffett on Subprime The following question was posted to Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger last year during the Berkshire Annual Meeting. As an accounting student, i believe i should really learn how to dig through the numbers and get to the economic reality in the Financial Statements, as mentioned by Munger, sometimes accounting policies, reported figures and reality may diverge significantly. Q: What is your opinion on the subprime market? Warren Buffett: [Poor practices in the subprime market] resulted in a lot of people buying houses they shouldn't have. The individuals and, in some cases, the institutions are going to suffer in varying degrees. The question is whether this will spill over into the general economy. I would guess that if unemployment doesn't rise significantly and interest rates stay relatively low, it will be a problem for those involved, but it's unlikely that that factor alone triggers anything massive Charlie Munger: What we had was a combination of sin and folly. The accountants allowed the institutions to show profits on loans that no one in their right mind would have allowed to show a profit until the loan matured to a better condition. The minute you pay people high commissions to make loans to the "undeserving poor," or the "overstretched rich," you're in trouble. I don't see how those who did it can still shave in the morning, because the face looking back is evil and stupid. Warren Buffett: You have loans where some people weren't even making the first two or three payments -- that shouldn't happen. We saw a preview of this with the manufactured home industry years ago. Securitization has fed the problem. Discipline goes out the window. Don't think it will cause massive troubles though. But there are several areas of the country where real estate will be difficult. |
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walker
Member |
27-Jan-2008 21:04
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How to Minimize Investment Returns It?s been an easy matter for Berkshire and other owners of American equities to prosper over the years. Between December 31, 1899 and December 31, 1999, to give a really long-term example, the Dow rose from 66 to 11,497. (Guess what annual growth rate is required to produce this result; the surprising answer is at the end of this section.) This huge rise came about for a simple reason: Over the century American businesses did extraordinarily well and investors rode the wave of their prosperity. Businesses continue to do well. But now shareholders, through a series of self-inflicted wounds, are in a major way cutting the returns they will realize from their investments. The explanation of how this is happening begins with a fundamental truth: With unimportant exceptions, such as bankruptcies in which some of a company?s losses are borne by creditors, owners in aggregate can earn between now and Judgment Day is what their businesses in aggregate earn. the most thatTrue, by buying and selling that is clever or lucky, investor A may take more than his share of the pie at the expense of investor B. And, yes, all investors having someone take his place. If one investor sells high, another must buy high. For owners as a whole, there is simply no magic ? no shower of money from outer space ? that will enable them to extract wealth from their companies beyond that created by the companies themselves. Indeed, owners must earn less than their businesses earn because of "frictional" costs. And that?s my point: These costs are now being incurred in amounts that will cause shareholders to earn they historically have. To understand how this toll has ballooned, imagine for a moment that all American corporations are, and always will be, owned by a single family. We?ll call them the Gotrocks. After paying taxes on dividends, this family ? generation after generation ? becomes richer by the aggregate amount earned by its companies. Today that amount is about $700 billion annually. Naturally, the family spends some of these dollars. But the portion it saves steadily compounds for its benefit. In the Gotrocks household everyone grows wealthier at the same pace, and all is harmonious. But let?s now assume that a few fast-talking Helpers approach the family and persuade each of its members to try to outsmart his relatives by buying certain of their holdings and selling them certain others. The Helpers ? for a fee, of course ? obligingly agree to handle these transactions. The Gotrocks still own all of corporate America; the trades just rearrange who owns what. So the family?s annual gain in wealth diminishes, equaling the earnings of American business members trade, the smaller their share of the pie and the larger the slice received by the Helpers. This fact is not lost upon these broker-Helpers: Activity is their friend and, in a wide variety of ways, they urge it on. After a while, most of the family members realize that they are not doing so well at this new "beatmy- brother" game. Enter another set of Helpers. These newcomers explain to each member of the Gotrocks clan that by himself he?ll never outsmart the rest of the family. The suggested cure: "Hire a manager ? yes, us ? and get the job done professionally." These manager-Helpers continue to use the broker-Helpers to execute trades; the managers may even increase their activity so as to permit the brokers to prosper still more. Overall, a bigger slice of the pie now goes to the two classes of Helpers. The family?s disappointment grows. Each of its members is now employing professionals. Yet overall, the group?s finances have taken a turn for the worse. The solution? More help, of course. It arrives in the form of financial planners and institutional consultants, who weigh in to advise the Gotrocks on selecting manager-Helpers. The befuddled family welcomes this assistance. By now its members know they can pick neither the right stocks nor the right stock-pickers. Why, one might ask, should they expect success in picking the right consultant? But this question does not occur to the Gotrocks, and the consultant-Helpers certainly don?t suggest it to them.
The Gotrocks, now supporting three classes of expensive Helpers, find that their results get worse,
and they sink into despair. But just as hope seems lost, a fourth group ? we?ll call them the hyper-Helpers
? appears. These friendly folk explain to the Gotrocks that their unsatisfactory results are occurring
because the existing Helpers ? brokers, managers, consultants ? are not sufficiently motivated and are
simply going through the motions. "What," the new Helpers ask, "can you expect from such a bunch of
zombies?"
The new arrivals offer a breathtakingly simple solution:
the hyper-Helpers assert that huge contingent payments ? in addition to stiff fixed fees ? are
what each family member must fork over in order to
The more observant members of the family see that some of the hyper-Helpers are really just
manager-Helpers wearing new uniforms, bearing sewn-on sexy names like
EQUITY
bestowing on its wearers magical powers similar to those acquired by mild-mannered Clark Kent when he
changed into his Superman costume. Calmed by this explanation, the family decides to pay up.
And that?s where we are today: A record portion of the earnings that would go in their entirety to
owners ? if they all just stayed in their rocking chairs ? is now going to a swelling army of Helpers.
Particularly expensive is the recent pandemic of profit arrangements under which Helpers receive large
portions of the winnings when they are smart or lucky, and leave family members with all of the losses ?
and large fixed fees to boot ? when the Helpers are dumb or unlucky (or occasionally crooked).
A sufficient number of arrangements like this ? heads, the Helper takes much of the winnings;
tails, the Gotrocks lose and pay dearly for the privilege of doing so ? may make it more accurate to call the
family the Hadrocks. Today, in fact, the family?s frictional costs of all sorts may well amount to 20% of
the earnings of American business. In other words, the burden of paying Helpers may cause American
equity investors, overall, to earn only 80% or so of what they would earn if they just sat still and listened to
no one.
Long ago, Sir Isaac Newton gave us three laws of motion, which were the work of genius. But Sir
Isaac?s talents didn?t extend to investing: He lost a bundle in the South Sea Bubble, explaining later, "I can
calculate the movement of the stars, but not the madness of men." If he had not been traumatized by this
loss, Sir Isaac might well have gone on to discover the Fourth Law of Motion
returns decrease as motion increases. |
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skipper
Member |
29-Aug-2007 14:57
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Thanks Stevento. Question was answered. But it brings up another. How many bids away from the SELL/BUY price do you fix it at? If a buy queue is at, for example, 0.45cents, and you protect yourself by putting a STOP LOSS at 0.43cents, will that be exercised immediately (as it is lower than the current price of 0.45cents) or will it be exercised only after the price has fallen and the SELL queues exhausted though 0.45/0.445/0.44/0.435/and finally 0.43? I hope I have phrased the question clearly. Thanks again and cheers |
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geojam2
Member |
29-Aug-2007 14:40
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Thewizard about my trading style? Rojak style.That is why i am caught with shares in my hands. Capital to start with? Not many ppl like my style of raising money and i think it is too risky too.I borrowed heavily with margin lending to play the share market. So on hind sight,u should be more cautious and buy only wat u can afford. |
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stevento
Senior |
29-Aug-2007 13:43
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Program trading - basically trades with a preset stop loss or gain. So everyday I just key in the price to sell to realise certain profits or to prevent excessive losses with the online trading system. So you can detach yourself from the sentiments in the market based on technical. I have my style of trading, a mixture of fundamental and technical. Each style depends on the economic cycle. In the current situation, it is so difficult to see where the market is heading and with the sub prime issues looming, I am using technicals to trade. Thus, I set the upper and lower limits to trade. I hope that answers your question. |
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skipper
Member |
29-Aug-2007 13:35
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Stevento. Could you explain a bit more about "program trading". Thanks |
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ten4one
Master |
29-Aug-2007 13:25
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Alrite stevento, I could picture that you must be a very good Poker Player by the way you're playing the Stock Market. Of course, in a Poker Game with a $100k table money, the reward could be much more with skill and a good hand, in a good environment. Cheers! |
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stevento
Senior |
29-Aug-2007 12:25
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Currently I am looking at the markets. I am confused how we can get out of this situation. If FED cuts rate- what is the impact? Easy money, inflation may run away and gets out of control. Stocks market will get into a turmoil. May drive US into recession IF FED does not cut rate- Sub Prime issue, more defaulters on loans, credit crunch.......and causes a financial meltdown..... I am not sure how the central banks can do it this time round. Of the 2 evils, I thought that the US going into a mild recession would have softer landing to everyone. Which way I turn, I find a road block. May Mr Wee CY can provide his Midas touch to untangle the web. :( Lost in the mad financial world. |
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stevento
Senior |
29-Aug-2007 12:16
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Hi there, It is interesting to note that Warren Buffet is buying railway stocks. He has been buying since last year. Brick and Mortar stocks. His favourite. He is going for stocks that will continue to grow and yield good dividends in good and bad times. Coca Cola, Procter and Gambel, Energy stocks.... Let me share a little of my trading, I am holding a full time job but doing part time trading. This can be quite rewarding by giving me additional income. I thought it was possible to make between $40K to $60 even to trade part time. An initial capital of $100K would be able to give you 40-60% without taking too much risk. I believe in looking for shares with the good growth, potential and management as well. I tend to focus on less than 5 shares that I pick in a year. This year I pick QAF because of the tax credit it was giving out. Bought 100 lots in April and sold off in June after receiving almost 100 lots in PSC and 2cents dividend. Made almost $13K from PSC and $2K from dividend. The other story is Aztech. Margins at 18-25%, Revenue growth at 12-15% and management doing its part to cut cost. Shares jumped from 0.29 to 0.62 before I let go. Made almost $20K from it. Learning points- I did some homework before I trade. Maybe it did help. Overall till now, it has been $60K profit on $100K capital. I think it is possible. Happy trading. |
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TheWizard
Member |
29-Aug-2007 11:10
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Hi geojam2, Can you tell me what's your trading time frame and what amount of capital did u start with ? Thanks |
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singaporegal
Supreme |
29-Aug-2007 10:29
Yells: "Female TA nut" |
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Haha... I agree with elfie. The biggest enemy is oneself. I have to have a little split personality. Have to be confident in my technique and yet look at the market with pessimism because I'm ready to cut loss when the situation turns bad. |
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ten4one
Master |
29-Aug-2007 07:14
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Tatrader, we're the ones who drifted away from the Subject Matter " The World Without Warren Buffett". Your post is spot on to show that America still needs Warren Buffett to contribute to the good health of the economy; not so much the world though. Cheers! |
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tatrader
Senior |
28-Aug-2007 23:31
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Sorry to divert the topic. But I was just watching CBNC Asia, it is reported that Warren Buffet is buying the railroad companies. |
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ten4one
Master |
28-Aug-2007 22:49
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Agree with Stevento that Poker is similar to the Stock Market where skill is required. WIth a good hand and without skill, you may win a small pool. A skillful Player could read the game well and know when to call and when to quit and of course when to 'better'. That is also require in the Stock Market as well! Very unusual comparision, but true! Cheers! |
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geojam2
Member |
28-Aug-2007 22:42
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Thewizard I quit my well paid full time job in the year 2000 to focus on trading/investing in the share market. My experience tells me that u can give yourself a pat on ur back, if on average, your return on capital invested is between 10 to 20% .Sometimes the returns can be negative. If ur aim is to make $5k a month or $60k a year based on a capital investment of $100k,that is,60% ROI,then i think u have to take extraordinary risks. Btw,b4 i quit my job in the year 2000 ,i trade/invest part time during office hours. |
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elfinchilde
Elite |
28-Aug-2007 22:00
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hi thewizard, the most important thing you'll need: belief in yourself. the most important thing you'll NOT need: overconfidence. hope you can find the balance. good luck. :) |
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tanglinboy
Elite |
28-Aug-2007 21:58
Yells: "hello!" |
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I agree with stevento. Leveraging is a two edge knife. It can hurt both ways. I know of some people who lost quite a sum of money doing this. |
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