Latest Forum Topics / PARAGONREIT Last:0.875 +0.005 | Post Reply |
SPH Reit - Final Balloting Announcement
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Tiencheong
Member |
04-Aug-2013 00:17
Yells: "Second life" |
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Agreed
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warrenbegger
Elite |
02-Aug-2013 21:31
Yells: "Anyhow Buy Anyhow Die ^_^" |
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To Rosesyrup, U had done a good job, I enjoy your personal analysis or research. Weather u totally right or wrong doesn't matter, u just sharing your analysis. Thanks  :) *I feel u more like a Continuous Improvement Manager or Analyst.. |
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Rosesyrup
Veteran |
02-Aug-2013 03:15
Yells: "Get your own opinion, don't follow blindly." |
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Lol at  ohm136. Should I thank you for snide comment? Or should I send back a snide comment when SPHreit price falls a little? I guess neither, cause I have no interest in starting a childish war of tongues. Anway if you have spent more time thinking, you would have realised that the small investors (including you and me) using this forum have no power over actual market forces which are dominated by big fund managers. Simply put, my comments post no  threat to the stock price and there is no reason for you to act so defensively. Well, what can I expect from someone who can't differentiate paper value from real value.   Fret not, I have found just the perfect article that explains the difference between real (intrinsic) value and paper value. Hope it supplement your knowledge. Enjoy reading it. http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2013/08/01/time-to-sell-facebook-valuation.html   PEACE LOL
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ohm136
Member |
01-Aug-2013 16:23
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Hi Rosesyrup It is good to know that you are in a short position hope that you will be " in the money" soon. Good luck and wish you all the best. Regards ohm136 |
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Rosesyrup
Veteran |
31-Jul-2013 18:04
Yells: "Get your own opinion, don't follow blindly." |
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The IPO is a value creation for shareholders. YupYup, I did not and dare not  refute this point. IPO obviously creates value since it increase the liquidity of the counters. However the point I was trying to emphasize, all along, is that how much actual value can investers gain  by buying SPH Reit at 90cents and above? Refering to your earlier comment: " This may be a case of the seller sold to the buyer at a high price and the buyer resold (IPO) it at a higher price (90 cts ps) ...........and the market paid for it at an even higher price (98 - 99 cts). Thus, a significant amount of value has been created."   You were saying that so long as the price of the reit keep hiking, value is being created. What I was trying to say is the price of the reit can flactuate wilding from seconds to seconds, but the real worth of the reit really depends on its future return. In the long run,  the price of the reit has to be near its real woth. Otherwise the high premium over the fair value of the reit is nothing more than nought. If continuous rising share price creates REAL (the keyword here) value, we would have seen many counters trading at millions per share.  Since we did not see this happening in the real world, it means share price depend on the fair value of owning that particular asset. Thus it would be more pratical to discuss about fair value of the asset- Fundamental Analysis- and you might like to share your view on that. Anyway if you take a closer look, the price is retracting and the selling actvity  is picking up. This is most probably due to profit taking by speculators who were alloted with the shares during the IPO. These speculators normally employ short term  strategy of applying for the share and selling it within 1-2 weeks after the IPO, hoping to make an immediate gain of around 20%. Since most of them constantly hunt for new IPO shares and do not really have the capital to hold multiple counters simultaneously for a prolong period of time, most of them would be gone (leave this counters)  within a month or so. And after 3 months, the investors that are left are mostly long term investors looking forward to stable return. Since long term investors depend more on fundamental analysis, I expect to see price start heading southward for the next few weeks,  till it reaches the market fair value. According to  the calculation that I have done, I give it a fair value of 87cents****. Though unlikely, a good price to enter would be 79cents. I am vested with a short position on this counter. **** The 87cents fair value is based on my own personal calculation and opinion. I urge you to do your own assessment and calculation for any relevant decision making purpose.
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ohm136
Member |
31-Jul-2013 15:27
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There is no confusion. The IPO is a value creation for shareholders. Read the definition of value creation as follows:The performance of actions that increase the worth of goods, services or even a business. Many business operators now focus on value creation both in the context of creating better value for customers purchasing its products and services, as well as for shareholders in the business who want to see their stake appreciate in value.
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Juzztrade
Veteran |
31-Jul-2013 13:08
Yells: "Techincal and long term investor" |
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Vol getting lower
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Rosesyrup
Veteran |
30-Jul-2013 17:50
Yells: "Get your own opinion, don't follow blindly." |
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Allow me to answer your questions in 2 steps: 1) Is SPH the MA & controlling 70% of SPHREIT? Yup, SPH is still  a major holder of the Reit. But look at it from another perspective, if the malls were such good investments, why would SPH want to reduce its stake from 100%? There is also no gurantee that SPH will not reduce the 70% stake in the next 5 years. From what I see, suffering losses from 70% of the capital is better than taking losses from the  full amount (100%).  In my opinion,the only reason that SPH is still holding on to major stake, is purely to retain investors' confidence in the reit and therefore  enable it  to command a high price while it retreat from the assets.    2) This may be a case of the seller sold to the buyer at a high price and the buyer resold (IPO) it at a higher price (90 cts ps) ...........and the market paid for it at an even higher price (98 - 99 cts). Thus, a significant amount of value has been created. It is dangerous to confuse Real Value with Paper Value. Real Value of an asset comes from its future value, in this case the rental revenue and captial appreciation of the 2 malls.  On the other hand, what you mentioned is paper value and it can fluctuate wildly  . ULTIMATELY  paper value has to be    supported by real value, otherwise the " Significant amount of value that has been created" would be nothing more than the value of used tissue paper (worthless). Thus it would more pramatic and useful  to discuss about the real value and fundamental of the reit.  
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ohm136
Member |
30-Jul-2013 15:07
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Is SPH the MA & controlling 70% of SPHREIT?    This may be a case of the seller sold to  the buyer at a high price and the buyer resold (IPO) it at  a higher price (90 cts ps) ...........and the market paid for it at an even higher price (98 - 99 cts). Thus, a significant amount of value has been created.   |
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Rosesyrup
Veteran |
30-Jul-2013 13:43
Yells: "Get your own opinion, don't follow blindly." |
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Okok, let put it this way: -SPH and SPH Reit are two different entities now. -SPH sold the two malls to SPH Reit -And according to you, SPH did the right thing. In another word, you mean SPH benefited from selling the 2 properties to SPH Reit. -Since in a transaction, buyer and seller have got opposing interest- buyer wants lower price and seller wants higher price. -SPH benefited from the transaction (or did the right move), means it sold the two malls at higher price. And the buyer, SPH Reit, lose out from the transaction by  buying at a high price. -Therefore the conclusion is SPH Reit and its shareholders did not get the better end of the deal. Meanwhile SPH and its shareholders are the winners from this transaction, thus the listing of SPH Reit is a right move. -Look, we have got exactly the same conclusion. -BTW my understanding for AGM is that it is only good for clarifying  stuff that is already presented on the prospectus. Don't expect to hear much about weakness and risks of the business that has not been publicised. Just like financial statement, AGM is another platform where company emphasize positive news about itself. Nevertheless, this is understandable since the management remuneration is pegged to the company's share price. Thus,  it is really up to investors to do their research to uncover true  risks and problems within the company. :) Cheers.  
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ohm136
Member |
30-Jul-2013 00:07
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The questions were raised and answered at the recent AGM. I tend to agree with them that SPH is not short of cash and the listing of SPH Reit  is a  right move. 
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Rosesyrup
Veteran |
29-Jul-2013 15:25
Yells: "Get your own opinion, don't follow blindly." |
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Some good questions to think about: 1) Why did SPH choose to list its  reit now? 2) Is SPH short of cash? (The annual fat dividend already  answered this question) 3) Assuming your answer to question 2 is " NO" too. If SPH reit is such a good investment, why would SPH want to spin it off? SPH has no history of spinning off and its management could have retained the two properties and so earn higher remuneration from the wider job scope. To answer this question, check out the price at which SPH acquired Clementi Mall. 4) Commericial reits are cyclical counters, they are worth much more during economy expansion. Why did SPH  rush to list the reit just when economy show a weak sign of recovery?  Couldn't SPH wait for another year or so, when economy recovery is certain and liquidity in the market  is higher? To answer this question,  check out the new malls which are going to start operating in 2 years time and their impact on the retail rental market. Afer answering the 4 questions, it should give a rough idea of the proportion of meat(benefits) and bone (costs) still left on this counter. |
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Rosesyrup
Veteran |
29-Jul-2013 14:33
Yells: "Get your own opinion, don't follow blindly." |
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Overvalued. Will suffer from competition from new malls in 2 years time. This is especially true for Clementi mall. My TP: $0.87. |
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Shirleyfong88888
Member |
29-Jul-2013 14:14
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Hope this is a Good counter......😊
Pray it can shoot up > S$1 |
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Juzztrade
Veteran |
29-Jul-2013 11:51
Yells: "Techincal and long term investor" |
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More buy up than sell down
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NoMoney
Veteran |
29-Jul-2013 11:07
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looks like buying interest is back | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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teeth53
Supreme |
29-Jul-2013 09:02
Yells: "don't learn through life, learn to grow with life " |
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Different $tock, different winning $treak... http://www.financeasia.com/News/350428,singapore-reit-ipos-raise-a-combined-863-million.aspx A comparision between SPH n OUE IPOs offering...Happi reading and it performance there after. |
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CitizenBeng
Member |
28-Jul-2013 11:16
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SPH REIT - How can it afford unitholder payouts?
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Kensonic77
Veteran |
28-Jul-2013 11:10
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SINGAPORE PRESS HLDGS LTD
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teeth53
Supreme |
27-Jul-2013 09:59
Yells: "don't learn through life, learn to grow with life " |
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SPHREIT - Last done $0.99c +0.010c on Volume of 17,029,000 mil shr changed hands.
Teeth53 thot - As dollar stk where it belong...coming soon. Recommended to hold. SPH Reit - Final count is more impt. |
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