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Fellowship of the Shares
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baseerahmed
Master |
30-Mar-2007 12:34
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Asterisk : A + for essay chinkiasu : I never missed a single episode of Water Margin on saturday afternoon in the 1996 or 1997 and again the re-runs last year. |
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chinkiasu
Master |
30-Mar-2007 11:32
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oh yes fairygal, talking of Desdemona... ?She was in love; and he proved mad And did forsake her. She had a song of willow... And she died singing it. That song tonight Will not go from my mind? It is so tragic.... but that's life too.. |
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chinkiasu
Master |
30-Mar-2007 11:03
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no worries my dear lausk22 sir, we are just having some bantering.... I believe the heros here are true heros, they have to act out their characters.... I refer you back to your thread "ode to SJ Forumners".. looks like we can have the 108 heroes as in Water Margin... forced out to Liang Shan by the garmen.... |
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chinkiasu
Master |
30-Mar-2007 10:39
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wow, asterisk I like your spirit....good post!!! you have a global attitude.. and re competition from foreigners, there will certainly be jobs like the one Elfinchilde had where you must be a true Singaporean... |
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lausk22
Veteran |
30-Mar-2007 08:53
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sound like this thread going political..into the arena of Singapore bashing by citizens, ex-citizens and foreigners,,,sigh.... |
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geojam
Member |
30-Mar-2007 07:29
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View from ex sporean. I hate to write long post. First,spore govt.says lack of talented ppl.So they start to "import". Second,young local talent,as evidenced in the SJ,gets pushed out of the way. Third,young local talent start to migrate. Fourth,govt.says these are second liners,so ok for them to go.No worries,i import more from China and India. The process start again. |
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chinkiasu
Master |
30-Mar-2007 06:28
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Hi, bunnie, again we missed each other... I had gone to bed.. no I dont have much work to do nowadays: just taking it easy.. taking pictures of birds in Sungei Buloh..... I guess you are overseas which explain the late hour..... to continue my re elf's second point, but before I do that I should correct any implied insinuation that I may have made: no like bunnie and elf.. I am also trying to give Sporeguy a balance perspective (re scholarship with A*star or TLB) to advise his friend's daughter (lucky her... ). now re elfs second point about Singapore being a stop over.. I think that is a valid concern, but I guess that is why the scholarship binds them to 12 years in Singapore.. the important thing is that we get the really good talent not second rate ones... so therefore elf's other concern about making conditions for stay "caveat emptor. you need to keep a GPA of at least 4.8 out of 5, if not, your scholarship is 'under review'. They have a clause that lets them cut you off during your studies if you fall below that". is their way of taking care ensuring we get genuine talent..... |
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chinkiasu
Master |
30-Mar-2007 05:54
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dear elf, I missed (I mean we are on different timing) you again .. waah you now doing the night watch now.. must be having a lot of office work to do.. poor thing.... re your "i perceive you're a philip yeo supporter. just some points: When you say 'they couldn't bring in top scientist', who is meant by 'they'?" no I am not a PY supporter.. otherwise I can make a better case for him..... no I have not been following PY vs LWL spat ...you see, I have been away from Singapore trotting the globe too much even to catch with newspapers.. in that sense I am not too bothered or feel so passionate about the whole episode: no see so boh charp.. when I say "they" I meant John Hopkin U (sorry I was not clear)- under the terms of contract, they were suppose to bring in top scientists/PIs, i.e their reseach staff from USA but they did not, instead they went around to countries like India to recruit new "staff" to bring them to Singapore i.e trying to snook us.. but I understand this was spotted by PY who then cancelled their contract... |
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elfinchilde
Elite |
30-Mar-2007 02:24
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victorian gege, keke, they come here 'cos it's easier to set up a pharma manufacturing in singapore. less issues with copycat medication (think osim's problems in china), greater accountability and ISO certification. it's consumer logic for the businessman: would you buy medication that's made in china, or made in singapore? plus, malaysia has a lot of unstable governance laws....in the bio field, perhaps it's copyright patents that ppl most look for? dunno. but what's clear is that bio research shd not be lumped together with pharma output in measuring success of the research field: they're two dif things. gege. i can't sleep. wail. too stressed. tmrw need to work early. stress. elf wants a puppie. wail. :( |
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elfinchilde
Elite |
30-Mar-2007 01:26
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godpa, thanks for the apologies. and sigh, yea, next time pls pls don't make such jokes. i don't like having to face unnecessary and speculative envy...work stress enough liao. haha. lewsh, sounds so interesting. :) want to ask: in the past the different dialect/blood groups got along together, but after the 1997 suharto riots? Did they still get along? 'cos i konw like, in bali, they chased away the madurese.... lausk, oh, you were trained in israel too? gotta love their tech. best in the world. and when did you almost die in the ROC? couldn't have been WWII what...*puzzled* chinkiasu. concur with bunnie. but haha, i perceive you're a philip yeo supporter. just some points: 1) When you say 'they couldn't bring in top scientist', who is meant by 'they'? Perhaps in judging an organisation, we shd look at the words of people other than the chairman, who def has vested interests. 2) And yea, what brain gain? that shd perhaps be defined as only if they stay. (PRC and indians) They do the research, the publish the papers, they move on to America. What does singapore get, apart from being a stopover? 3) Caucasians: those 'lured' here come with very attractive pay packages, and get to bring their entire teams with them. what place for the singaporean? 4) Gotta note that US 'brain drain' might be a cultural issue, not a brain drain one: US students prefer to study the arts, not the sciences. And note that despite this so-called brain drain, they hold one of the most numbers of patents, and have the most publications in the world. Not to mention the holy grail of the science field, the nobel prizes. anyhow, 'nuff said. the life sciences is honestly a done deal for me. Like bunnie said, we don't intend to discourage anyone, but i do wish is for ppl to see clearly, and not just take in information from one source. sporeguy, your friend's daughter needs to remember: a PhD is 4 years. You bind yourself 8 years in return for that. 12 years in all. Can she take it? When you're 18, it might seem like the world; but when you're 22, and have tasted the wideness of world, would a bond be heaven, or resignation? At the end of the day, time is the gold standard. Check back in 10 years and we'll see who's right on the life sciences here. haha. godpa. If you are a second liner, then, i wanna be just like you when i get old. :) |
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geojam
Member |
30-Mar-2007 01:07
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Todays newspaper in australia carried an interview with LKY. LKY is said that ppl like me who left spore are cos i am cannot make it in spore.I am a second liner. But tell u what,from the forum,i think i am so lucky i left spore. I will probably be retrenched if i have stayed on to work in spore. |
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bunbun
Senior |
30-Mar-2007 00:58
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uncle kiasu, why so late and u still awake? tmr no need work ah? it is true that some top scientists are now here. but let's look at why they are here. alot of them are lured into coming here cos of attractive offers from the government. they are not interested in nurturing our young minds into becoming the next top scientists. neither are they interested in contributing to the success of developing our fifth pillar. take away the $$ and other lucrative parts in the offer to them, and we see if these top minds would still want to come to Sg. these ppl, at the end of the day, will still be easily lured away by other countries who can give them better offers. it is jsut a matter of time. and if anyone also happen to think that in the life sci/biomed industry is non-/less-political, boy, u are wrong. there are 'corporate ladders' to climb too. to do this, other than a phd (permanent head damage) certification, it depends on the number AND quality of papers you'd submitted. also in this industry, everyone is guarded in giving information on their research projects. because you could be competing with the next scientist in US or China or Europe, to get the intended results and publish a paper on it. and in doing so, you beat your competitor. i am sure it is not elf's nor my intention to discourage anyone to go into life sci/biomed. like in all situations, decide with eyes open. coz it will be really sad if a decision is made due to illusions formed from superifical information obtained. btw, globalisation to me = talent goes to the place where u can earn the most. sometimes, the place that appreciates and welcomes talents may not necessarily be paying the most. $$ feeds you. appreciation doesn't. okie dok, i finish my emails liao. gonna zzzzzzzzzz. nitez everyone :) |
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chinkiasu
Master |
30-Mar-2007 00:01
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Let me continue my comment re Elf?s post about A*Star. I refer to her para 3 where she has concerns about the research jobs such as the Principal Investigator (the leading i.e top scientist) being taken by foreigners... but I think that?s the whole point of setting up A*STAR too? to bring to Singapore top scientists.. and this must be a measure of success of the scheme... we have here a real brain gain?lets face it, USA has today cutting edge technology because they are able to attract people like Albert Einstein who though born in Germany went to work in Princeton..
Re her second point about Phd students being Chinese & Indians, again it is brain gain.. so also would be for us when Sporeguy?s friend?s daughter accepts & joins A*Star or TLB.. this is globalisation, talent goes to the place that appreciates and welcomes it...
before I close for this section, I note my auntie bunnie's post... I am glad too for her present job she liked, out of the research field as I did with mine, I also enjoyed my life in another career but I think we should not discourage ppl from going to A*Star just because we moved on... yes we should dream our dream and Sporeguy's friend's daughter had hers... personally re IMCB, as bunnie has said it was donkey years ago, I suspect they would have got their act together now... Rome is not build in a day... |
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bunbun
Senior |
29-Mar-2007 23:29
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Elf, share the same sentiments as you re life science scenario in Sg. Realised the horrible truth and woke up to reality when i interned in IMCB (institute of molecular and cell biology) donkey years ago. Then, ALL the PIs were from China and US. yes. u didn't read wrongly: ALL. i cannot imagine the 'future' of science / biomedical situation now in a* and other biomedical related institutes in Sg. and i'm glad i got out of this industry when i had the chance. continue to dream your dream and eventually you will get to live it. i did. :) |
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geojam
Member |
29-Mar-2007 23:26
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Hi Elf I was just jokimg when i said ur pay was S$20k a month.So it started all this talk and guessing of ur pay packet. Sorry for that. |
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lausk22
Veteran |
29-Mar-2007 23:06
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Poor elf, If u read my post again, u will realise that I doubted u earn high pay. Can understand your rant and rave given the pittance that u get for putting your life on the line for our beloved country! Your altruism really put this old NSman who was Jew trained and almost died twice while playing childish war games in ROC to shame;-p |
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chinkiasu
Master |
29-Mar-2007 22:33
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dear Lewsh88, looks like you have enough material to write a book... you got photographs too, personally for me there would be a lot of interesting fauna & flora... btw, any opinions on the cut and burnt in Kalimantan which was the cause of the haze affecting us last year? |
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lewsh88
Senior |
29-Mar-2007 21:20
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Hi elf, I was the only Technical Consultant for an Indonesian conglomerate doing logging, plywood milling, rubber & palm oil plantation, palm oil milling, floor and wall tile manufacturing, coal mining, hotel, high end residential development. Their total employee about 30,000 with probably 100 foreigners, mostly Malaysians and few Singaporeans and Caucasians. I was based in Kalimantan from 1980 till my retirement end 2005. My job was mainly to set up modern heavy equipment repair workshops and spare part stores complete with control systems all over Kalimantan, mostly in the jungle. I also set up training system, logistic systems and diesel engine generators to supply 24 hour electricity for jungle camps. During purchase of heavy equipment such as off-highway logging trucks, bulldozers,and other road construction equipment, I was involved with setting specifications and selection. Most of my time (about 90%) was living in the camps. Company provided food is simple. Three meals a day of rice with fried chicken,eggs, river fish, tapioca leave, jungle vege. There are no "hawker centres or coffee shops" in the jungle. You have no choice on food. We eat to live. (In S'pore, we live to eat!) Working and living with the Dayak people and other Indonesians such as Javanese, Bataks (from Sumatra), Timorese, Manadonese, Bugis, etc.. for 26 years is very interesting. They are all different in their way of live. They are very tolerant in religion. My travelling involved flying to Jakarta, connecting to either Pontianak in West Kalimantan or connecting to Balikpapan in East Kalimantan. From these main towns to the small towns is another connecting flight on 10-seater twin prop 35 years old Norman Brittan plane. (Its very common for these small planes to crash. I was fortunate). At times I had to travel in 70hp speed boat up river for 12 hours or by 4 wheel drive along non paved road for 8 to 16 hours. That in a nutshell was my working life till my retirement. When we have a chance to meet, and if you are not bored, I shall be glad to share my travels in kalimantan with you. Cheers. |
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chinkiasu
Master |
29-Mar-2007 21:17
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let however say that it appears to me that Elfinchilde may not be seeing the complete picture in coming to her conclusions. For example re her para 2, I understand John Hopkins lab is empty because they could not bring in top scientists from John Hopkins U but instead they went around recruiting 2nd rate scientist from countries like India and wanted to post them here (it would appear they are trying to take us for a ride, "thinking we are still swinging in the trees" said PY according to one reliable source..JHL have broken their contract so things are halted... so there are teething problems... but I heard also on the reseach side there are some significant achievements, not bad for a newly established institution... |
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chinkiasu
Master |
29-Mar-2007 20:48
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hi, elfinchilde, thanks for a painstaking post... wasnt expecting such a long explanation but I really appreciate you taking a lot of time to do it despite you having a lot of office work.... |
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