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Livermore Master	09-Feb-2007 23:15        Livermore About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I am not against TA but I notice that some of you sold off some shares but not sure if you bought them back as those shares you sold which could have been good for long term, came back and shot back up.
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Livermore Master	09-Feb-2007 23:11        Livermore About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Hi Geojam, I fully agree with you on margin trading as I margin trade as well. Somehow my friends think I take "high risk". Actually I am a very careful trader. My first "test buy" is only 5 or 10 lots. Margin trading is ok if you do it with the right strategy. I buy more shares as share price goes up not when share price goes down. Buying more shares when price goes down can be dangerous for margin trading. Sometimes I only use up to only 30% - 40% of my buy limit. I only increase as my share price goes up. Effectively when your share price goes up, the interest is actually being paid up. Of course when you stock pick is wrong, just get out. The returns are good using margin trading with the right strategy:)
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idesa168 Elite	09-Feb-2007 23:07        idesa168 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Giantlow lost his cool! Lost patience.
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Livermore Master	09-Feb-2007 22:59        Livermore About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	One of the things I have learnt is PATIENCE in the market.I am more in favour of holding onto stocks with great potential for the long term. So I am not going to try to time the "coming correction". But if you had just invested lately on stocks which have run up quite a bit late, then it pays to be more careful. But if you had been vested a long time ago, you can choose to lock in some profits but do hold some for the long term and don't sell everything. I prefer growth stocks rather than blue chips for long term investments. Yes, it is not easy to find the "gems" among all the stocks.  So I prefer a more focussed approach to investing. I only have 3 stocks and 1 warrant and "fight the temptation" to add more stocks to my portfolio. There is no neccessity to monitor every minute on the stcok screen unless you have extremely big positions at one price. Investment can help us in financial independence but do "invest time" in your career too. Investing time in one's career is also an investment! Making money in stocks is never a sure thing. I think a mixture of both growth and value investing is the best i.e you look for stocks that are cheap and also with growth potential. Remember once again, that buying a stock is not just about looking at what is its 52 week high price and what is its 52 week low price before you buy. Some stock may have a low price compared to their 52 week high but I will not buy if it has no growth potential. On the hand , a stock may be not far from its 52 week high, but I would still consider buying. Some of you might hve missed my earlier post. Well here is an article I read in a investment book. His style is similar to mine:)    Below is a paragraph from the book : "Let's stop and think about this concept for a moment. The idea of buying a stock at the highest price it has ever sold for just as it is coming out of a correct basing area seems ludicrous. After all, most of us were raised with the idea of getting a deal, a bargain. I am here to shatter a common and comfortable misconeption. What applies to buying merchandise on sale at a department store works in the completely opposite way when dealing with stocks, Do you want stocks that have the greatest potential for moving even higher? Then you have got to ignore the errorneous old saying,"buy low and sell high," and replace it with buy high and sell a lot higher."
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idesa168 Elite	09-Feb-2007 22:53        idesa168 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	You definitely don't sound like a novice, I am. At least you know what  warrants is, I don't...lol! I am happy for you that you are doing well in the "Investment Game". 8 out of 10 trades profit, is no ordinary!I fully agree wif you that investing apart from getting into FA gd company, entry price is also important where your TA knowledge comes in. However, if investing purely on TA, it will be high risk as I have mentioned previously, the BBs can manipulate the mkt becos they have $$. In this bullish mkt, your trading from Dec to Feb had made. Just watch out if the mkt reverse, it's tough to get that result. Besides I don't have so much spare $$ to trade in and out like you do. Hope that u are making more...HUAT AH!
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geojam Member	09-Feb-2007 22:53        geojam About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	idesa168 To me there is good debt,like margin lending and "bad'debt like borrowing money for car or splash on wedding. If u borrow to buy good shares like u advocate SPH and hold it for 30 years then u will be infront.Over time the money borrow will reduce.Just like money borrow for house. Not many ppl agree with me on margin lending,anyway just my tot.
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shplayer Elite	09-Feb-2007 22:42        shplayer About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	If I may join in the discussion. look at the FA of this counter. At today's closing of 4.42, P/E is about 8 X and div yield is 7.9%. Also, consider this...@ 4.42, you are effectively paying 4.07 (xd) for SPC. i.e. P/E of  7.3x. Then look at the 2007 prospect of the company. Comments by the company of the 2007 prospects are: GDP growth in Asia will be healthy. China expected to grow by 10% => demand for refining product will be strong.  Refining capacity will remain tight => healthy refining margins. Oyang field coming onstream (finally) => more 'upsteam' revenue.....bear in mind, upstream is usually very good.  If you are comfortable with these numbers and prospects meet your investment criteria, then don't get too worked up over the day to day fluctuations.
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elfinchilde Elite	09-Feb-2007 22:03        elfinchilde About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	hullo idesa168, yep agree with you about not challenging the BBs. what we try to do is to follow the trend. :) i play both by TA and FA, so from an FA point i fully agree with you, about shutting out noise from market, not playing warrants etc--these are things i practice myself. and yea, like you i'm against warrants too. 'cos to me they're gambles on a gamble, and i won't take double jeopardy. and keke, yeah i know what you mean about being lucky. Luck does play a part in the market, definitely, but also skill: that's where TA comes in. (speaking now from a TA standpoint) and yes, it definitely requires you to watch the market a lot more (and not twitch at every single move), but like i said, it's all dependent on personality. some would not be able to take the 30 year wait, while others would love it. To me, as long as a person knows his/her mind and goals, and can achieve it, any method's fine. :) ehhhh.... depending on your salary means you'll be working all your life! which is fine if you love your job i guess... but probably just a goal difference for me here: my aim is financial independence. ie, what capital i make from the market is enough for living comfortably on, with or without a job. and yes, if this gives hope to others out there, it is possible. To date, I'm only holding one FA counter now (sold out all TA stocks already 'cos i find market too shaky). But for the TA and TA+FA counters, my tally for mid-dec to feb stands at 10 trades, 8 profit. 2 brokerage loss. That's what i mean by 15% return per annum IS possible, including losses. i mean, i make more than my monthly salary on the market each month. and i don't believe i'm the only one here who can do this, esp since i'm only a novice!  and no, i don't glue myself to the monitor every day. only abt 15 min lunch time and call for report after. wouldn't say i spend more than an hr a day on stock monitoring. In the future tho, i'll definitely be trading the way you say. Pure FA and hold long term basis. Only blue chips for the long term. :)
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idesa168 Elite	09-Feb-2007 21:45        idesa168 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Hi elfinchilde Thank you for discussing this with me, especially after dinner, I am begining to enjoy sharing thoughts here. I have pity on Giantlow's plight. He got to emotion about his holding. Probably he had over-stretched his $$ on warrant. Honest with you, I do not understand a single bit about warrant. My concept of investment is very simple way, buy low, wait, and sell high. In between there are warrants, all these I still don't understand. But I know they are gambling, which I am strongly against it. My analysis on investment is different from you. Your way of investment I agree will make more $$, going in low, sell high. But we may not be so lucky to always buy low and sell high. Also don't you think this way of investment requires lots of work and watch mkt intensively. You can't be working full-time if you are watching over the mkt that way. However, if we put $10,000 in the mkt 30 yrs ago, and invest the time onto our career which will bear us more $$ ($2000 x 12x 30yrs), don't u think that will far exceed $600K with $300K from mkt and $800K from salary. I felt that $$ from salary is the biggest profit from any investment, no capital needed.
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idesa168 Elite	09-Feb-2007 21:25        idesa168 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Don't try challenging the BBs. They are holding huge fund. A stock price will appreciate if the company is doing well. There is no reason for a stock to appreciate in price if they are making money. The only reason the price will go up is the BBs trying to push it up, building a false hope in retail investor that this stock is good. They went in with huge amt, of course the price shoot (demand and supply). But when they exit, the retail investor will be holding on to the empty shell. These are the greedy one, thinking making quick money thru brokers recommendation. Invest in a sound company, trust me, you will sleep well. I am not afraid of price fluctuation in SPC. It's short term, see the big picture. The world is short of oil, a natural resource which cannot be replicated/made by mankind. How much can mankind get oil from the ground, forever supply? There are just too much noise out there, talking up or talking down the stock. I am staying still. It always works.
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elfinchilde Elite	09-Feb-2007 21:20        elfinchilde About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	hm...idesa168, the holding for 30 years view only works if: 1) You can actually pick an SPH at $1 (which really, how many can?) 2) You can sell at the high 30 years later, and not get burnt in a crash. Like 1987, 1997, 2003. Perhaps it's less about punting but more about focused investing. to take your example: i can start with 10,000, make 15% return per annum (which is very achievable really), and by compounded returns, that sum will be worth 662K in 30 years. of course, a lot depends on personality and individual knowledge: quite a lot will be happy parking in that 10K for 30 years and just letting it grow. and the thing is, nothing wrong with either method as long as the goal is achieved.   completely agree with your point that we should only play with money we can afford to lose! if it's gonna cause sleepless nights, then really...might not be worth it. :) as a thought: is it possible that your BBs are manipulating motherstock 'cos they hold the warrants too? so they'll have vested interests to NOT let SPC move beyond 3.5, esp if they bought the warrants opposing giantlow's type. just a thought.
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idesa168 Elite	09-Feb-2007 21:05        idesa168 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Why are everyone so pessimistic, so groomy! The share price did not appreciate today, but neither did it fall. Look on the brighter side of life! SPC fell from high of $6.00 to now hoover around $4+. That was happening from May last yr, 7 mths now. Can a stock keep falling in share price throughout? It's still making $$, not loosing $$. What I see is that it's on a reversal trend now. But it does not travel upward in a straight line. See the bigger picture, this stock is going to make it! Besides, it's recent fall in price do contribute to the Head and Shoulder pattern. I feel that it's doing the last leg before going. It's shaking off the weaker ones. As to some of the forumers here saying about the BBs controling the  price, coming in and out in large lots, I do notice that too. But honestly I have no problem with that. Look at it this way. If you are among the BBs and you are filthy rich, do you want to control the mkt and make more $$? Needless to say, you would like to, we all love to. Now it's just that these BBs are rich, not us. Hence we live humbly and nimble what you can. Life is just so unfair, nothing in the world is fair. Why your colleague doing the same job but his salary is more than yours? Why a doesmetic maid earns $350 here while a local auntie cleaning tables at food court esily earns more than $500? The list goes on. On a investment note, why do we invest our $$ in stock? It's because we want to make $$, more $$, much more $$. Why do we want more $$? It's because we want to live a luxurious life, a bigger hse, bigger car, 3 maids, wear diamonds, expensive holidays, etc. All these equate to comfortable life, sleep well, eat well. If we are doing now is to chase after a stock in short term and unable to sleep well, eat well, we forget about the primary objective in investment. Invest in what you can afford, money that you do not need in the short term. Don't invest on borrow $$. Margin trading is a form of borrowing, so is warrant, a pure gambling. Find a stock that has good fundamental, consistent earning, and managed well by a good team, and invest in the company, NOT PUNTING. We don't need to invest into many stock in order to make $$. Techinically, one or two is enough. To strike TOTO, we need only a set of 6 numbers. But we are buying a lot to make the chnace of winning better. But all kena makan, righ! Same theory for stock too. If we found SPH 30 years ago at $1.00, 30 yrs now today, with share price apreciated thru the yrs, and stock split, it's a cool 30 over times your initial investment. $10,000 is now worth $300,000. Hope you get the point I am driving at. Happy trading week ahead!
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sohguanh Veteran	09-Feb-2007 17:55        sohguanh About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	And that sadistic fellow has lotsa MONIES to play you all. SPC 1 lot so many K so I can understand you all plight. That is why I neber wanna play shares above $1 cuz if lose lose BIG. I more conservative prefer to lose small and win small also :)
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chinkiasu Master	09-Feb-2007 17:52        chinkiasu About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	who ever that institutional player, he is really having a sadistic time playsing with us minnows..
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patricklaupt Member	09-Feb-2007 14:45        patricklaupt About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Victorian and ZhouYu, thanks for the info. Thanks to victorian for the analysis as well. Have a nice trip.
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chinkiasu Master	09-Feb-2007 14:21        chinkiasu About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	many many thanks for the post, Victorian... you have a good trip!
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fire26 Member	09-Feb-2007 13:07        fire26 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Dear Victorian,   I strongly agree with why you had said. The main point is don't let the Bboys take us for a ride. See who will panic if this drops to nothing.
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ZhouYu Member	09-Feb-2007 12:47        ZhouYu About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Hi Morton U can get it free too from POEMS account.
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fire26 Member	09-Feb-2007 12:29        fire26 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	With Bboys throwing at this much how can it goes up???? We have to lost interest in this counter before it can goes beyond $4.48. Let it falls to $4.00 first before it can start to climb!!! 12:19:16 Sell Down 4.400 -0.020 800 5 12:15:10 Sell Down 4.400 -0.020 795 5 12:10:08 Sell Down 4.400 -0.020 790 2 12:01:44 Sell Down 4.400 -0.020 788 6 12:01:33 Buy Up 4.400 -0.020 782 77 12:00:20 Buy Up 4.400 -0.020 705 1 11:57:22 Buy Up 4.400 -0.020 704 4 11:57:16 Buy Up 4.400 -0.020 700 6 11:57:12 Buy Up 4.400 -0.020 694 4 11:57:06 Sell Down 4.400 -0.020 690 297 11:51:30 Buy Up 4.420 - 393 4 11:49:56 Sell Down 4.400 -0.020 389 5 11:48:54 Buy Up 4.420 - 384 1 11:46:00 Buy Up 4.420 - 383 1 11:44:03 Buy Up 4.420 - 382 10 11:28:23 Buy Up 4.420 - 372 1 11:28:22 Sell Down 4.400 -0.020 371 2
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ROI25per Master	09-Feb-2007 12:15        ROI25per About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Flexible   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	oil price up [now 60++], spc price down a little oil price down, spc price down a lot So spc will always be down....so disappointed.
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