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FrasersComm

francisd
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03-Mar-2010 15:19     
 
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Yells: "BUY LOW SELL HIGH"
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I let it pass.
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ongkk96
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03-Mar-2010 15:16     
 
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 Alert Admin 		anybody applied? it closed yesterday.. I think 24cent to convert is too high?
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Alligator
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25-Feb-2010 16:43     
 
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 Alert Admin 		time getting closer, but when mother share price is depressed, then  CPPU with high premium become less attractive
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Alligator
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19-Feb-2010 16:57     
 
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plenty of time to consider,, take your time


Decision on 2 march.
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ianong
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19-Feb-2010 16:15     
 
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 Alert Admin 		still considering, dunno worth or not. now $ very tight, must bet carefully. but F&N behind FCOT, think also can't be tat bad. right or not?

alexwong      ( Date: 19-Feb-2010 15:24) Posted:

okay.. just wanna  find out... anyone already applied for the CPPU? or interested? or just wanna give it up?
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alexwong
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19-Feb-2010 15:24     
 
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 Alert Admin 		okay.. just wanna  find out... anyone already applied for the CPPU? or interested? or just wanna give it up?
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Andrew
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18-Feb-2010 16:43     
 
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Ya....something like that......maybe 30cts look very good alredi.

Of course, the Manager will redeem the CPPU at the speed of light loh.....if you have the booklet....see pg...14 and 15 for illustration.....

Every year there is perhaps only one window period to exercise and redeem.......

 



alexwong      ( Date: 18-Feb-2010 15:12) Posted:

Ok..i'm new to this too...

Can i make a picture like this?  Let's say by year of 2012.. STI goes up to 3500, FCOT evrery year makes money from it's properties and rentals, shares goes up to 0.60cents plus minus... And assumming they really give out 5.5% pa, does it mean that i'm still able to exercise the rights to convert into the units of about 24Scts, rather than the share rate of 0.70cents? and still get to earn the 5.5%pa interest?



Andrew      ( Date: 18-Feb-2010 09:13) Posted:



I just managed to get a copy of the proposal.  Here is my unprofessional advice :

a) Once you taken up the offer, you are tied down for 3 years.  Both the Manager and the Holder cannot reedeem or exercise for a period of at least 3 years respectively.

b) While it has received approval from SGX to be listed eventually by 2012.  It may not be listed afterall, because not enough holder or spread as one reason.

c) It is not an CPF approved investment instrument because the reason being the manger never applied for approval.  Why never applied leh ?  Is it because it will never or low chance of being approved by CPF ?

d) This commerical paper is ranked higher than the unitholder (shares of FCOT now trading around 15Scts) and junior to current debt.

e) While it is stated that it pay 5.5% pa of interest.  It is only true if the manager feel like paying you.  In the event it don't feel like paying you, the manager also cannot pay the unitholder of FCOT or redeem other debt lor.  It may, however, pay less than the 5.5% pa. just to entertain you.

f) Holder of this commerical paper has no rights to request for early redeemption by the manager.

g) Holder should have the mindset that there is a chance of totally loss of principal invested.

h) The ONLY way to exit this investment is

i) Wait for the Manager to reedeem.

ii) Exercise your rights to convert into the usual units at about 24Scts.  (Currently, trading at 15cts)

iii) You need to wait for at least 3 years starting from Aug 2009.

iv) Wait for it to list these units in SGX in 2012......which may or may not be trading at the offer price. OR may not even be listed.

Did I got it right ?  Comment ?

Do you still want to invest ?

 

 

 

 
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alexwong
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18-Feb-2010 15:12     
 
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Ok..i'm new to this too...

Can i make a picture like this?  Let's say by year of 2012.. STI goes up to 3500, FCOT evrery year makes money from it's properties and rentals, shares goes up to 0.60cents plus minus... And assumming they really give out 5.5% pa, does it mean that i'm still able to exercise the rights to convert into the units of about 24Scts, rather than the share rate of 0.70cents? and still get to earn the 5.5%pa interest?



Andrew      ( Date: 18-Feb-2010 09:13) Posted:



I just managed to get a copy of the proposal.  Here is my unprofessional advice :

a) Once you taken up the offer, you are tied down for 3 years.  Both the Manager and the Holder cannot reedeem or exercise for a period of at least 3 years respectively.

b) While it has received approval from SGX to be listed eventually by 2012.  It may not be listed afterall, because not enough holder or spread as one reason.

c) It is not an CPF approved investment instrument because the reason being the manger never applied for approval.  Why never applied leh ?  Is it because it will never or low chance of being approved by CPF ?

d) This commerical paper is ranked higher than the unitholder (shares of FCOT now trading around 15Scts) and junior to current debt.

e) While it is stated that it pay 5.5% pa of interest.  It is only true if the manager feel like paying you.  In the event it don't feel like paying you, the manager also cannot pay the unitholder of FCOT or redeem other debt lor.  It may, however, pay less than the 5.5% pa. just to entertain you.

f) Holder of this commerical paper has no rights to request for early redeemption by the manager.

g) Holder should have the mindset that there is a chance of totally loss of principal invested.

h) The ONLY way to exit this investment is

i) Wait for the Manager to reedeem.

ii) Exercise your rights to convert into the usual units at about 24Scts.  (Currently, trading at 15cts)

iii) You need to wait for at least 3 years starting from Aug 2009.

iv) Wait for it to list these units in SGX in 2012......which may or may not be trading at the offer price. OR may not even be listed.

Did I got it right ?  Comment ?

Do you still want to invest ?

 

 

 

 
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Andrew
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18-Feb-2010 12:54     
 
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Actually, the scheme has already started.  In the latest Q report. CPPU holder get 1.39 cts while Unitholder gat 0.24 cts this Q

FCOT will pay 1.39 cts to CPPU every Q, the rest is for Unitholder.

Sound good ??  But currently this CPPU is in the hand of F&N and FCL, so everything looks fanastic.  Once the dist to investor, it may or may not present the same outcome lor.

Want to ride the wave with F&N ??

 



ianong      ( Date: 18-Feb-2010 11:17) Posted:

Does this CPPU units issue dilutes the existing shareholders' DPU and other aspect such as EPS? Tks!

Andrew      ( Date: 18-Feb-2010 10:10) Posted:

OK.....here is the more simplify form :  If holder are Loan Shark and Manager are the Borrower

The loan shark cannot call the Manager HP demanding payment, cannot pour paint on Manager home......Do this type of loanshark exist  ?

It is a WIN-WIN for F&N and FCL......if no one take up the offer, F&N pick up the tab. FCOT will be pressure to give 5.5% pa.   Unitholder get nothing.

If many investor take up the offer, then....see it as a smart money or free loan lor and the best part, no need to pay back too......

It is also an opportunity......imagine.....only 5% taken up by investor and F&N takes 95%.....izzit good to ride the wave lor....??? 

 
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Zelphon
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18-Feb-2010 11:23     
 
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I think YES...

5.5% pa... This is a REITS..

Their only source of income is the rental yield...

Distributable money to shareholders will be affected as they need to pay off those with CPPU 1st...

Just think of the whole distributable money as a pie..

Now have to cut some portion for CPPU..

 

 

 



ianong      ( Date: 18-Feb-2010 11:17) Posted:

Does this CPPU units issue dilutes the existing shareholders' DPU and other aspect such as EPS? Tks!

Andrew      ( Date: 18-Feb-2010 10:10) Posted:

OK.....here is the more simplify form :  If holder are Loan Shark and Manager are the Borrower

The loan shark cannot call the Manager HP demanding payment, cannot pour paint on Manager home......Do this type of loanshark exist  ?

It is a WIN-WIN for F&N and FCL......if no one take up the offer, F&N pick up the tab. FCOT will be pressure to give 5.5% pa.   Unitholder get nothing.

If many investor take up the offer, then....see it as a smart money or free loan lor and the best part, no need to pay back too......

It is also an opportunity......imagine.....only 5% taken up by investor and F&N takes 95%.....izzit good to ride the wave lor....??? 

 
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ianong
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18-Feb-2010 11:17     
 
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 Alert Admin 		Does this CPPU units issue dilutes the existing shareholders' DPU and other aspect such as EPS? Tks!

Andrew      ( Date: 18-Feb-2010 10:10) Posted:

OK.....here is the more simplify form :  If holder are Loan Shark and Manager are the Borrower

The loan shark cannot call the Manager HP demanding payment, cannot pour paint on Manager home......Do this type of loanshark exist  ?

It is a WIN-WIN for F&N and FCL......if no one take up the offer, F&N pick up the tab. FCOT will be pressure to give 5.5% pa.   Unitholder get nothing.

If many investor take up the offer, then....see it as a smart money or free loan lor and the best part, no need to pay back too......

It is also an opportunity......imagine.....only 5% taken up by investor and F&N takes 95%.....izzit good to ride the wave lor....??? 

 



ianong      ( Date: 18-Feb-2010 09:42) Posted:

Very confusing and troublesome to hold it. Not expert in this and don't understand it. Under such scenario, best is to give it a miss. I will give it a miss
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Andrew
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18-Feb-2010 10:10     
 
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OK.....here is the more simplify form :  If holder are Loan Shark and Manager are the Borrower

The loan shark cannot call the Manager HP demanding payment, cannot pour paint on Manager home......Do this type of loanshark exist  ?

It is a WIN-WIN for F&N and FCL......if no one take up the offer, F&N pick up the tab. FCOT will be pressure to give 5.5% pa.   Unitholder get nothing.

If many investor take up the offer, then....see it as a smart money or free loan lor and the best part, no need to pay back too......

It is also an opportunity......imagine.....only 5% taken up by investor and F&N takes 95%.....izzit good to ride the wave lor....??? 

 



ianong      ( Date: 18-Feb-2010 09:42) Posted:

Very confusing and troublesome to hold it. Not expert in this and don't understand it. Under such scenario, best is to give it a miss. I will give it a miss.

Andrew      ( Date: 18-Feb-2010 09:13) Posted:



I just managed to get a copy of the proposal.  Here is my unprofessional advice :

a) Once you taken up the offer, you are tied down for 3 years.  Both the Manager and the Holder cannot reedeem or exercise for a period of at least 3 years respectively.

b) While it has received approval from SGX to be listed eventually by 2012.  It may not be listed afterall, because not enough holder or spread as one reason.

c) It is not an CPF approved investment instrument because the reason being the manger never applied for approval.  Why never applied leh ?  Is it because it will never or low chance of being approved by CPF ?

d) This commerical paper is ranked higher than the unitholder (shares of FCOT now trading around 15Scts) and junior to current debt.

e) While it is stated that it pay 5.5% pa of interest.  It is only true if the manager feel like paying you.  In the event it don't feel like paying you, the manager also cannot pay the unitholder of FCOT or redeem other debt lor.  It may, however, pay less than the 5.5% pa. just to entertain you.

f) Holder of this commerical paper has no rights to request for early redeemption by the manager.

g) Holder should have the mindset that there is a chance of totally loss of principal invested.

h) The ONLY way to exit this investment is

i) Wait for the Manager to reedeem.

ii) Exercise your rights to convert into the usual units at about 24Scts.  (Currently, trading at 15cts)

iii) You need to wait for at least 3 years starting from Aug 2009.

iv) Wait for it to list these units in SGX in 2012......which may or may not be trading at the offer price. OR may not even be listed.

Did I got it right ?  Comment ?

Do you still want to invest ?

 

 

 

 
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candle
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18-Feb-2010 09:44     
 
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so complicated

life is actually can be very simple
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ianong
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18-Feb-2010 09:42     
 
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 Alert Admin 		Very confusing and troublesome to hold it. Not expert in this and don't understand it. Under such scenario, best is to give it a miss. I will give it a miss.

Andrew      ( Date: 18-Feb-2010 09:13) Posted:



I just managed to get a copy of the proposal.  Here is my unprofessional advice :

a) Once you taken up the offer, you are tied down for 3 years.  Both the Manager and the Holder cannot reedeem or exercise for a period of at least 3 years respectively.

b) While it has received approval from SGX to be listed eventually by 2012.  It may not be listed afterall, because not enough holder or spread as one reason.

c) It is not an CPF approved investment instrument because the reason being the manger never applied for approval.  Why never applied leh ?  Is it because it will never or low chance of being approved by CPF ?

d) This commerical paper is ranked higher than the unitholder (shares of FCOT now trading around 15Scts) and junior to current debt.

e) While it is stated that it pay 5.5% pa of interest.  It is only true if the manager feel like paying you.  In the event it don't feel like paying you, the manager also cannot pay the unitholder of FCOT or redeem other debt lor.  It may, however, pay less than the 5.5% pa. just to entertain you.

f) Holder of this commerical paper has no rights to request for early redeemption by the manager.

g) Holder should have the mindset that there is a chance of totally loss of principal invested.

h) The ONLY way to exit this investment is

i) Wait for the Manager to reedeem.

ii) Exercise your rights to convert into the usual units at about 24Scts.  (Currently, trading at 15cts)

iii) You need to wait for at least 3 years starting from Aug 2009.

iv) Wait for it to list these units in SGX in 2012......which may or may not be trading at the offer price. OR may not even be listed.

Did I got it right ?  Comment ?

Do you still want to invest ?

 

 

 

 
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Andrew
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18-Feb-2010 09:13     
 
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I just managed to get a copy of the proposal.  Here is my unprofessional advice :

a) Once you taken up the offer, you are tied down for 3 years.  Both the Manager and the Holder cannot reedeem or exercise for a period of at least 3 years respectively.

b) While it has received approval from SGX to be listed eventually by 2012.  It may not be listed afterall, because not enough holder or spread as one reason.

c) It is not an CPF approved investment instrument because the reason being the manger never applied for approval.  Why never applied leh ?  Is it because it will never or low chance of being approved by CPF ?

d) This commerical paper is ranked higher than the unitholder (shares of FCOT now trading around 15Scts) and junior to current debt.

e) While it is stated that it pay 5.5% pa of interest.  It is only true if the manager feel like paying you.  In the event it don't feel like paying you, the manager also cannot pay the unitholder of FCOT or redeem other debt lor.  It may, however, pay less than the 5.5% pa. just to entertain you.

f) Holder of this commerical paper has no rights to request for early redeemption by the manager.

g) Holder should have the mindset that there is a chance of totally loss of principal invested.

h) The ONLY way to exit this investment is

i) Wait for the Manager to reedeem.

ii) Exercise your rights to convert into the usual units at about 24Scts.  (Currently, trading at 15cts)

iii) You need to wait for at least 3 years starting from Aug 2009.

iv) Wait for it to list these units in SGX in 2012......which may or may not be trading at the offer price. OR may not even be listed.

Did I got it right ?  Comment ?

Do you still want to invest ?

 

 

 

 
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Alligator
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18-Feb-2010 09:05     
 
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Sound like a mixture of bond and equity, point to note is while it said 5.5% distribution, it is not guaranteed, the manager may not declare 5.5% distribution.

if u look at their financial report, u can see their declared 5.5% distribution on quarter of Oct 1 2009- 31 Dec 2009 .

so, this is for those who are more thinking of bond yield with an option to convert to share ( after the 3 year period) with a conversion ratio of 0.2369, or one CPPU convert to 1/0.2369 or about 4.221 shares.



yanggoat      ( Date: 18-Feb-2010 08:33) Posted:

i read it it kind of bond stuff. for 3 year. ending at 2012 year. Did anyone notice ?
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yanggoat
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18-Feb-2010 08:33     
 
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 Alert Admin 		i read it it kind of bond stuff. for 3 year. ending at 2012 year. Did anyone notice ?
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Huhushares
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17-Feb-2010 23:29     
 
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currently i got  36000shares and i can have series A CPPUs 1800shares

 

Conversion Units = 1 / 0.2369 * 1800 = 7598 ordinary shares         = $1800

if currently i buy = 7598 ordinary shares * 0.15 = $1167

$1800 - $1167= $633

If i apply the A CPPUs i lost $633 ? can anyone tell me why should we apply what benefit those we have? confusing
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ianong
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17-Feb-2010 23:12     
 
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 Alert Admin 		Ya, need some enlightenment on this Series A CPPU thing. The more I read, the more I confuse. What's the benefits of it over normal units? Why should I pay $1 per CPPU? Think it's expensive with not much benefits. Very confusing on the conversion parts also, the expiry date etc... It's in board lot of 500. Does it mean it will have its own counter for trading? So confusing.
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yanggoat
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17-Feb-2010 21:34     
 
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Just read up the Offer, It did mention that it confirm a 5.5% payout. but subjected to the manager declaring. if manager never declare = no 5.5% payout also. When going through the offer, i think it got mention that the currently DPU is around 3-4% only due to the right issue last year. Did Anyone of you gone through the offering booklet already. 

 Let say you are offer 1000 of Series A CPPUs  That mean per offer is $1 dollar. we will be paying 1000 dollar ?

 We can choose to Ignore the offer also.

 Anyone want to share
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